Warlord: Your experiences
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Danceofmasks
First Post
I find them underwhelming, actually.
They offer some static bonuses for everyone, which is nice.
But then most of their powers require hitting in order to grant bonuses, and if they're supposed to be 'the one' granting the bonuses, they can count on missing a lot of important attacks.
Insofar as melee leaders go, I find battle clerics and valorous bards more mechanically sound.
I guess it also depends a fair bit on the party members.
If they have awesome basic attacks, warlord may get a fair bit of mileage.
They offer some static bonuses for everyone, which is nice.
But then most of their powers require hitting in order to grant bonuses, and if they're supposed to be 'the one' granting the bonuses, they can count on missing a lot of important attacks.
Insofar as melee leaders go, I find battle clerics and valorous bards more mechanically sound.
I guess it also depends a fair bit on the party members.
If they have awesome basic attacks, warlord may get a fair bit of mileage.
the Jester
Legend
I've seen two warlords imc, and I thought that they were really cool, fun characters. I haven't played much 4e (as opposed to running it), but I've really enjoyed all the warlord action that I have seen.
I will admit, though, that all the "Hit to do anything at all" powers are a little disappointing when you miss.
I will admit, though, that all the "Hit to do anything at all" powers are a little disappointing when you miss.
ValhallaGH
Explorer
I just finished playing a Resourceful Presence Dragonborn Warlord in a 4e Dragonstar campaign (fun stuff).
I found that going with a "high attack bonus" build (20 Str, longsword, etc), and picking a lot of "Effect" powers took her from meh (which Warlords were in PH 1, all I had seen) to kick-butt. Martial Power really expanded the Warlord options, making it a lot more interesting and useful a class. I had a lot of fun and kept my party cool, successful, and alive.
There were a number of interesting tactical decisions that made a real difference in how the fights went.
I really like the Resourceful Presence build because I like charismatic front-line officers characters (my Dragonborn specialized in commanding ship-to-ship close boarding actions) but what works best depends upon your stat choices, character concept, and party composition.
I did find it interesting that I had a lot of Tactical powers, as many of each as I had Resourceful, with most selections being unassociated with any of the builds. But that was a matter of picking powers that a) best helped my party, b) best fit my character, c) would be fun in play, and worked out quite successfully.
A strength Cleric may be a 'better' front-line leader (I keep hearing that) but I haven't seen one in play so I can't say.
Good luck!
I found that going with a "high attack bonus" build (20 Str, longsword, etc), and picking a lot of "Effect" powers took her from meh (which Warlords were in PH 1, all I had seen) to kick-butt. Martial Power really expanded the Warlord options, making it a lot more interesting and useful a class. I had a lot of fun and kept my party cool, successful, and alive.
There were a number of interesting tactical decisions that made a real difference in how the fights went.
I really like the Resourceful Presence build because I like charismatic front-line officers characters (my Dragonborn specialized in commanding ship-to-ship close boarding actions) but what works best depends upon your stat choices, character concept, and party composition.
I did find it interesting that I had a lot of Tactical powers, as many of each as I had Resourceful, with most selections being unassociated with any of the builds. But that was a matter of picking powers that a) best helped my party, b) best fit my character, c) would be fun in play, and worked out quite successfully.
A strength Cleric may be a 'better' front-line leader (I keep hearing that) but I haven't seen one in play so I can't say.
Good luck!
FireLance
Legend
I played an eladrin tactical warlord multiclassed swordmage with the Spiral Tactician paragon path (from Martial Power) in a paragon campaign (from 11th to 20th level) and I loved it. It had just the right mix of support and offensive capability for me. Of course, YMMV.
Some highlights:
To be frank, the swordmage multiclass boosted the offensive capabilities of the character quite significantly. Eladrin Swordmage Advance (from Arcane Power) allows you to make a melee basic attack as a free action against an enemy that you fey step adjacent to. This is boosted by the Spiral Tactician ability to regain fey step when you spend an action point. At 13th level, you can use a power swap feat to get hypnotic swordplay (from Arcane Power), which allows you to stun an enemy for one round, and at 16th level, you can use another power swap feat to get borrowed confidence (from Arcane Power), an encounter utility which allows you to roll twice whenever you make an attack roll or saving throw and use either result until the start of your next turn. If you fey step and spend an action point, that's three (or more - if you use a multiattack power) times you can make double attack rolls in a round.
However, the character also had access to some offensive abilities as a warlord. One of my favorite powers is provoke overextension (Warlord encounter 7, from Martial Power) which allows you to work very well with the party defender. The target you hit is forced to make a basic attack against you, which triggers the defender's mark. Then, if the enemy's attack misses, an ally (usually the defender, or the striker if he is also in range) may make a melee basic attack against the enemy. With good rolls, the enemy may be hit up to three times with a single use of the power: once for the initial hit, once for the defender's mark, and one more time if the enemy's attack missed. This tactic was extra effective in my specific case since the defender was a Champion of Order paladin, so when an enemy attacks me, it takes automatic damage from divine challenge and an opportunity attack from the paladin as well. Apart from that, the Spiral Tactician's fey step assault (Spiral Tactician encounter 11), which is an accurate Weapon attack that targets Reflex, and thunderous fury (warlord encounter 17), which dazes an enemy and (for a Tactical warlord) grants an attack bonus against it to your allies, are also good offensive powers.
A tactical warlord really shines when it comes to giving out attack bonuses. Apart from thunderous fury (mentioned earlier), allies get a bonus equal to half your Intelligence bonus (your full Intelligence bonus at 16th level with the Spiral Tactician paragon path) on attack rolls when they spend an action point. You can also boost damage by taking the Tactical Assault feat. And of course, once per day (or twice per day if you have salve of power from Adventurer's Vault) you can use lead the attack. With unintended feint (warlord daily utility 10, from Martial Power) you can also allow an ally to reroll a missed attack once per day.
In addition to attack bonuses, eladrin tactical warlords can enhance a party's mobility considerably. The Spiral Tactician encounter utility convey ally allows you to teleport an ally, the Fey Command feat (from Martial Power) allows an ally to teleport one square before or after an attack that he makes when using an action point, and the paragon-level Fey Tactics feat (from Martial Power) allows you to teleport an ally whenever you use fey step (this also benefits from the Spiral Tactician ability to regain fey step). In addition, opening shove (warlord at-will 1, from Martial Power) allows an ally to shift a number of squares equal to your Intelligence bonus (or make a melee basic attack) if it hits (and it is likely to, since it is a Weapon attack against Reflex).
Of course, as others have mentioned, try to ensure that you hit, especially when you're using attacks that grant bonuses! Borrowed confidence (mentioned earlier) helps a lot, and try to get hold of a luck blade or couters of second chances (both from Adventurer's Vault) if you can.
Some highlights:
To be frank, the swordmage multiclass boosted the offensive capabilities of the character quite significantly. Eladrin Swordmage Advance (from Arcane Power) allows you to make a melee basic attack as a free action against an enemy that you fey step adjacent to. This is boosted by the Spiral Tactician ability to regain fey step when you spend an action point. At 13th level, you can use a power swap feat to get hypnotic swordplay (from Arcane Power), which allows you to stun an enemy for one round, and at 16th level, you can use another power swap feat to get borrowed confidence (from Arcane Power), an encounter utility which allows you to roll twice whenever you make an attack roll or saving throw and use either result until the start of your next turn. If you fey step and spend an action point, that's three (or more - if you use a multiattack power) times you can make double attack rolls in a round.
However, the character also had access to some offensive abilities as a warlord. One of my favorite powers is provoke overextension (Warlord encounter 7, from Martial Power) which allows you to work very well with the party defender. The target you hit is forced to make a basic attack against you, which triggers the defender's mark. Then, if the enemy's attack misses, an ally (usually the defender, or the striker if he is also in range) may make a melee basic attack against the enemy. With good rolls, the enemy may be hit up to three times with a single use of the power: once for the initial hit, once for the defender's mark, and one more time if the enemy's attack missed. This tactic was extra effective in my specific case since the defender was a Champion of Order paladin, so when an enemy attacks me, it takes automatic damage from divine challenge and an opportunity attack from the paladin as well. Apart from that, the Spiral Tactician's fey step assault (Spiral Tactician encounter 11), which is an accurate Weapon attack that targets Reflex, and thunderous fury (warlord encounter 17), which dazes an enemy and (for a Tactical warlord) grants an attack bonus against it to your allies, are also good offensive powers.
A tactical warlord really shines when it comes to giving out attack bonuses. Apart from thunderous fury (mentioned earlier), allies get a bonus equal to half your Intelligence bonus (your full Intelligence bonus at 16th level with the Spiral Tactician paragon path) on attack rolls when they spend an action point. You can also boost damage by taking the Tactical Assault feat. And of course, once per day (or twice per day if you have salve of power from Adventurer's Vault) you can use lead the attack. With unintended feint (warlord daily utility 10, from Martial Power) you can also allow an ally to reroll a missed attack once per day.
In addition to attack bonuses, eladrin tactical warlords can enhance a party's mobility considerably. The Spiral Tactician encounter utility convey ally allows you to teleport an ally, the Fey Command feat (from Martial Power) allows an ally to teleport one square before or after an attack that he makes when using an action point, and the paragon-level Fey Tactics feat (from Martial Power) allows you to teleport an ally whenever you use fey step (this also benefits from the Spiral Tactician ability to regain fey step). In addition, opening shove (warlord at-will 1, from Martial Power) allows an ally to shift a number of squares equal to your Intelligence bonus (or make a melee basic attack) if it hits (and it is likely to, since it is a Weapon attack against Reflex).
Of course, as others have mentioned, try to ensure that you hit, especially when you're using attacks that grant bonuses! Borrowed confidence (mentioned earlier) helps a lot, and try to get hold of a luck blade or couters of second chances (both from Adventurer's Vault) if you can.
i've seen three warlords in play: two as a fellow player, and one as a DM for the warlord.
_player_ personality: two of those three were tactically-minded players and they enjoyed playing leader character concepts (I use the term leader as a character concept, not in the 4e class role definition). i'd say that those two visibly enjoyed the class much more than the less leadery-minded player who tried the class.
party synergy: in parties that have strong melee-based PCs, everything the warlord did somehow helped them... from helping them shift around for flanking, or extra melee basic attacks, or simply bonuses. But in the one party that was more 'ranged' PCs it was less so (just some bonuses, all the shifty powers didn't really help that much)
They provided nice bonuses to the party, extra shifting, and several granted attacks, so depending on your party that will either be a thankless job (that they just assume and take for grantite) or you'll get lots of "thank yous" if you like that sort of acknowledgement, or somewhere inbetween those extremes.
Hit average: I'd say their hit averages was about average for the party. It's mainly melee attacks (don't expect ranged/burst/blast/area/zone stuff), so a backup ranged weapon really is a must (a throwing shield from AV1 isn't bad for this since it would serve dual purpose defense and attack if needed without having to draw/prep the weapon).
Damge output: I'd say their damage output was low for the party BUT 'normal' for a leader role class. It's mainly weapon damage so don't expect fire/cold/radiant/acid/etc damage types without magic item involvement
general feel: it's a "reactive" class (like all leader role classes) in that it's hard to plan ahead of time what you're going to do since every move that someone makes sets up different tactical possibilities, effecting your choices differently. (whereas a defender or striker can more often decide a couple initiative counts in advance where they'll run/target or where they'll hold the line, etc).
if you have strong personalities at your game table, you may want to be a bit more particular about choosing the "shift the ally" type powers because someone may not agree with your choice of tatical positionining... or at least decide ahead of time if it's okay if you move player a's pc.
*if* you like rolling dice but also want to take the atwill (or other power) that grants an ally the attack, you could ask your fellow player if you can roll a d20 for him, thus you won't miss out on the dice rolling even though you're giving your attack to someone else.
bottom line: very tactical style class, provides several bonuses and bonus movements and bonus attacks.
anyway, just my rambling observations based on 3 warlords that i've seen.
_player_ personality: two of those three were tactically-minded players and they enjoyed playing leader character concepts (I use the term leader as a character concept, not in the 4e class role definition). i'd say that those two visibly enjoyed the class much more than the less leadery-minded player who tried the class.
party synergy: in parties that have strong melee-based PCs, everything the warlord did somehow helped them... from helping them shift around for flanking, or extra melee basic attacks, or simply bonuses. But in the one party that was more 'ranged' PCs it was less so (just some bonuses, all the shifty powers didn't really help that much)
They provided nice bonuses to the party, extra shifting, and several granted attacks, so depending on your party that will either be a thankless job (that they just assume and take for grantite) or you'll get lots of "thank yous" if you like that sort of acknowledgement, or somewhere inbetween those extremes.
Hit average: I'd say their hit averages was about average for the party. It's mainly melee attacks (don't expect ranged/burst/blast/area/zone stuff), so a backup ranged weapon really is a must (a throwing shield from AV1 isn't bad for this since it would serve dual purpose defense and attack if needed without having to draw/prep the weapon).
Damge output: I'd say their damage output was low for the party BUT 'normal' for a leader role class. It's mainly weapon damage so don't expect fire/cold/radiant/acid/etc damage types without magic item involvement
general feel: it's a "reactive" class (like all leader role classes) in that it's hard to plan ahead of time what you're going to do since every move that someone makes sets up different tactical possibilities, effecting your choices differently. (whereas a defender or striker can more often decide a couple initiative counts in advance where they'll run/target or where they'll hold the line, etc).
if you have strong personalities at your game table, you may want to be a bit more particular about choosing the "shift the ally" type powers because someone may not agree with your choice of tatical positionining... or at least decide ahead of time if it's okay if you move player a's pc.
*if* you like rolling dice but also want to take the atwill (or other power) that grants an ally the attack, you could ask your fellow player if you can roll a d20 for him, thus you won't miss out on the dice rolling even though you're giving your attack to someone else.
bottom line: very tactical style class, provides several bonuses and bonus movements and bonus attacks.
anyway, just my rambling observations based on 3 warlords that i've seen.
Last edited:
Danceofmasks
First Post
Well, just as a point of comparison for those who haven't seen battle clerics at work.
Here's a sample build:
Start with 20 str ('cos leaders really need hitroll).
Depending on race, invest in con & wis. Easiest is Human with 13 in each.
Preferably pick up fullblade proficiency.
Prioritise armour proficiencies. Human should start with scale.
3rd feat should be weapon expertise.
4th+ feats depends on play style. Weapon focus, a domain feat (to improve righteous brand), plate proficiency ... all good choices.
Personally, I'd avoid plate proficiency till paragon (so you can sit on 14 con in heroic) and increase wisdom to 14 at level 4 ... and pick up 'other' feats instead, such as racials.
Powers:
1: Righteous Brand & Priest's Shield. Humans can take sacred flame as their 3rd, just in case.
1: Healing Strike. 2[W] + (optional) mark + heal someone = win.
1: Shield of the Gods. Close blast 3, targets enemies only, targets reflex, 1[W]+str force weapon attack, knocks 'em prone, 1/2 damage on miss, and applies a +3 AC/Ref encounter long movable shield bonus buff to someone. Yourself is a good option if teh party fails at defender.
Equipment to look out for (or put on wish list):
Depends on build, really ... if the skill domain was taken, for instance, righteous brand becomes an MBA, and you can charge with it ...
Vanguard weapon, Iron Armbands of Power, Horned Helm ... you know, to add +1D8 +2 +1D6 on a brand charge. just 'cos it's funny.
2: Shield of Faith. Try to cast it just before a combat, as you can often tell (to save a standard action). It's a fire-and-forget +2 power AC buff to everyone.
3: Largely irrelevant. It's going to be a case of 'charge with righteous brand is better.'
5: I'd go with Weapon of the Gods ('cos it's a minor and you can righteous brand on the same turn), but Rune of Peace or Consecrated Ground are also solid choices. Weapon of the Gods is really nice if a party member has multiple attacks with a weapon (twin striker, staff wizard, etc).
6: Divine Favor. I like to precast this (on myself lol), but there are, once again, so many awesome choices. Some ppl say bastion of health for encounter healing power, but my take on healing = more dead enemies hurts party less = less healing required. Stream of Life falls into the same category.
7: Strike of Judgment. It targets will, and is a bit of surgeless healing.
9: Divine Power. Another daily that does everything. Close burst 2, targets fortitude, 2[W] radiant weapon attack, pushes 1, gives you regeneration 5, and allies in burst gets an encounter long +2 AC power bonus. Regeneration 5, eh? Add Stream of Life for hilarity.
10: Mass Cure Light. It's surgeless healing for the whole party. I might not like healing, but this is an awesome response to massive AoE blam.
Here's a sample build:
Start with 20 str ('cos leaders really need hitroll).
Depending on race, invest in con & wis. Easiest is Human with 13 in each.
Preferably pick up fullblade proficiency.
Prioritise armour proficiencies. Human should start with scale.
3rd feat should be weapon expertise.
4th+ feats depends on play style. Weapon focus, a domain feat (to improve righteous brand), plate proficiency ... all good choices.
Personally, I'd avoid plate proficiency till paragon (so you can sit on 14 con in heroic) and increase wisdom to 14 at level 4 ... and pick up 'other' feats instead, such as racials.
Powers:
1: Righteous Brand & Priest's Shield. Humans can take sacred flame as their 3rd, just in case.
1: Healing Strike. 2[W] + (optional) mark + heal someone = win.
1: Shield of the Gods. Close blast 3, targets enemies only, targets reflex, 1[W]+str force weapon attack, knocks 'em prone, 1/2 damage on miss, and applies a +3 AC/Ref encounter long movable shield bonus buff to someone. Yourself is a good option if teh party fails at defender.
Equipment to look out for (or put on wish list):
Depends on build, really ... if the skill domain was taken, for instance, righteous brand becomes an MBA, and you can charge with it ...
Vanguard weapon, Iron Armbands of Power, Horned Helm ... you know, to add +1D8 +2 +1D6 on a brand charge. just 'cos it's funny.
2: Shield of Faith. Try to cast it just before a combat, as you can often tell (to save a standard action). It's a fire-and-forget +2 power AC buff to everyone.
3: Largely irrelevant. It's going to be a case of 'charge with righteous brand is better.'
5: I'd go with Weapon of the Gods ('cos it's a minor and you can righteous brand on the same turn), but Rune of Peace or Consecrated Ground are also solid choices. Weapon of the Gods is really nice if a party member has multiple attacks with a weapon (twin striker, staff wizard, etc).
6: Divine Favor. I like to precast this (on myself lol), but there are, once again, so many awesome choices. Some ppl say bastion of health for encounter healing power, but my take on healing = more dead enemies hurts party less = less healing required. Stream of Life falls into the same category.
7: Strike of Judgment. It targets will, and is a bit of surgeless healing.
9: Divine Power. Another daily that does everything. Close burst 2, targets fortitude, 2[W] radiant weapon attack, pushes 1, gives you regeneration 5, and allies in burst gets an encounter long +2 AC power bonus. Regeneration 5, eh? Add Stream of Life for hilarity.
10: Mass Cure Light. It's surgeless healing for the whole party. I might not like healing, but this is an awesome response to massive AoE blam.
DracoSuave
First Post
I had a player play a Tiefling Resourceful Warlord and he loved the flexibility as well as the 'swing' factor the class brings to the table. As a healer, the resourceful doesn't seem the best, but there is absolutely no doubting the ability of a Warlord to go 'I spend an action to make the party win.'
You -have to be a team player- to get the most mileage out of the class, however. The class in general isn't like a clerical 'Heal and Deal' style of play... it requires you sacrifice a lot of personal glory in order for others to shine that much brighter.
That said, short of a Polearm Gamble fighter, the Warlord is likely the one class that gets the most mileage out of a reach weapon. Reach of weapon = reach of many buffs, including Viper Strike and Commander's Strike which are damn good at-wills in the right hands.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Ooh, ooh ... on the subject of reach weapons, I love the longarm marshall.
One of coolest PP ever designed.
Not overpowered by any means, just awesomely cool. Batman level cool.
One of coolest PP ever designed.
Not overpowered by any means, just awesomely cool. Batman level cool.
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