Warlord: Your experiences

[Ashodin]

We have a warlord in one of the groups we play with, and granted it's only moving on to level 4 atm, it's still pretty nice. It's buffs to the group area nice, especially when it starts buffing multipule charaters rather than just the closest one. Although I have to say it would probably be more useful if there were more melee characters in the group. Currently the group is made up of a Wizard, a Cleric (who never goes into melee cause their scared lol and fight ranged with a hand cross bow), a Ranger, and a rogue and a fighter. So I guess thats an ok setup for melee, it's buffing the two primary melee attackers. And his buffs seem to make the other characters hit twice as much, +3 to attack and damage is a pretty nice buff.

Also it's backup heals are nice, especially if the mob gets high jacked on a second encounter, the cleric blows away both her heals right away, instead of everyone else having to pop second wind, he can atleast backup heal 1 more. Good at helping the group stay alive.

I think rather than boring, there is much more tactic's invovled. Such as, do I want to cast this power since it's going to give combat advantage, it helps if they have dungeonengineering or something, because it's very useful for them to be able to pull down information on the characters and hopfully learn soemthing about their attacks.

All in all, I think the person who plays it in our group has a good ol time with it, he's also the leader of the party, so that helps too so he can call out commands to the other memebers. The same guy also plays a warlord in another group I play a druid in, and were always stacking Cull of the Beast and his granting combat advantage powers, since my cull negates the combat advantage part.

So the best I can say is make one, download the demo of Character Builder, and then goof off with a few test camps and just run them yourself to see how it plays out.

I think you'll like it, if you like allot of tactical planning.

 

[tiornys]

I only have experience with Tactical Warlords (but I have 41 levels worth of experience). I believe it's possible to build an effective reactive Warlord, but I think it would be very difficult to do so with the Tactical presence. In general, I believe Warlords should be proactive; Warlords are the best leader class at implementing the philosophy of "the best defense is a good offense". Tactical Warlords are all about helping the party explode out of the gates to take out one or two key enemy threats within the first two rounds of combat.

That said, you have to be able to find satisfaction in being the (key) supporter and not the star to enjoy most Warlord builds. Most of the buffs that the Warlord can apply help the rest of the party, but not the Warlord himself.

Battle Clerics and Valorous Bards are strong leader builds, but the Warlord is definitely at least as strong. Battle Clerics may be able to grant a large boost to an ally's attacks at-will with Righteous Brand, but a TacLord can multiply the 1/encounter boosts they give by granting extra attacks while piling on bonus damage to their ally's suddenly accurate attacks.

t~

 

[Victim]

I only have experience with Tactical Warlords (but I have 41 levels worth of experience). I believe it's possible to build an effective reactive Warlord, but I think it would be very difficult to do so with the Tactical presence. In general, I believe Warlords should be proactive; Warlords are the best leader class at implementing the philosophy of "the best defense is a good offense". Tactical Warlords are all about helping the party explode out of the gates to take out one or two key enemy threats within the first two rounds of combat.

Yeah, a tactical warlord with Battle Captain is great for setting up spikes.

The taclord does seem to require a higher degree of familiarity with everyone else's powers and abilities. Our cleric does pretty well just throwing out cranked up heals to keep us alive so we do our thing. OTOH, as a warlord, I had to constantly consider the status of my teammates - sometimes I need to coordinate with the ranger to hook him up with attack bonus on a nova round. OTOH, if his best powers were used up, then I might need to help the rogue get a flank (our rogue sucked at getting CA ) or expedite the fighter with Commander's Strike. If you're not paying attention to the other people, then a lot of your of your stuff can be wasted.

OTOH, I do feel that the taclord would be less useful in the post PHB 2 play environment. Characters tend to have more accuracy innately, so many of the bonuses the character offers are less critical.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think my Dragonborn Inspiring Warlord ultimately picked the wrong paragon path with Sword Marshall, but otherwise I think he seems to be quite good. He has good defenses and good attacks, meaning he can stand-in for a while as a Defender and definitely takes some pressure of our defender.

I have a lot of healing available,w hich often means i use my "cool" powers towards the end of the combat rather than the start - or not at all.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Well, just as a point of comparison for those who haven't seen battle clerics at work.
Here's a sample build:

Start with 20 str ('cos leaders really need hitroll).

depending on playstyle, 18 Strength is enough. Just make sure your other attributes compensate it with increased versality...

With the Cleric's badly designed righteous brand, 20 Strength means a lot... but it also means, you don´t have a ranged at-will

What i don´t like with leader classes is that they can´t benefit from their own buffs most of the time... the warlord is especially bad at granting himself bonuses. But he has some high damage dailies to make sure he can contribute to the fight.

 

[Danceofmasks]

On the subject of "18 is enough" ... that's the sort of thing that leads to "wardens are overpowered" or heck ... "warlords are not weaker than battle clerics"
Wardens are good, sure ... but they're not overpowerd because they don't have a viable 20 stat build.
I do have a lot of 18 stat builds .. heck, my favourite laser cleric build only has 18 wis.
The question must always be asked, which is better for the build - maxed mainstat, or spread out stats?
Well, for 95% of dex and int classes for example, that 20 does so much it's almost a travesty to go anything less.
Of course, even then there are exceptions ... some orbizard builds fall in that 5%.

My cleric does have a ranged at-will of choice ... it's called a magic javelin, yo.
RBA with heavy thrown is better than a wis-based attack on a battle cleric.
As always, backup plans are nice to have, but when it's used once in about 100 attacks, having a half decent sacred flame isn't worth gimping strength for.

 

[tiornys]

On the subject of "18 is enough" ... that's the sort of thing that leads to "wardens are overpowered" or heck ... "warlords are not weaker than battle clerics"

So, apparently you believe Warlords are weaker than Battle Clerics? You're going to have to make a better case for that than just listing powers they way you did in your first post. I've seen Battle Clerics in action, and while they are potent, they can't offer the kind of nova power that a well built TacLord can. And, judging from the comments of various posters on WotC's CharOp forum, the other Warlord builds are likewise similarly superior at nova promotion.

t~

edit: if you do want to make an extended debate on this, we should probably fork to another thread

 

[Blackbrrd]

Here is a build suggestion for a Inspiring Warlord.

As noted above you need to hit to buff for the attack-powers, but that isn't true for the utility-powers and some of the daily powers. I really love the damage buffing potential of this character. His AC is solid and he should be good at setting up flanking. As a bonus he is quite good at healing and very good at granting saves. (Probably the best save-giver in the game)

The thing I like the least about this character is his at-will powers, they aren't exactly great. Both the cleric and the bard has better at-will powers. The "problem" I see with the cleric is that except for Rightous Brand and Divine glow there aren't many DPR increasing powers or abilities. It's mostly about healing.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Ghesh, level 10
Dragonborn, Warlord
Commanding Presence: Inspiring Presence
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Acid

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 15.


AC: 27 Fort: 23 Reflex: 19 Will: 22
HP: 75 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +16, Heal +10, Athletics +13, Diplomacy +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +4, Bluff +9, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +4, History +6, Insight +5, Nature +5, Perception +5, Religion +4, Stealth +3, Streetwise +9, Thievery +3

FEATS
Level 1: Improved Inspiring Word
Level 2: Shield Proficiency (Heavy)
Level 4: Saving Inspiration
Level 6: Inspired Recovery
Level 8: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
Level 10: Toughness

POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Furious Smash - hit/damage buff, but needs hit
Warlord at-will 1: Wolf Pack Tactics - getting into position
Warlord encounter 1: Hammer and Anvil - easy to hit, grants attack
Warlord daily 1: Lead by Example - hit = damage, miss = grant basic attacks
Warlord utility 2: Inspired Belligerence - auto damage buff vs one enemy - encounter
Warlord encounter 3: Warlord's Strike - need to hit damage buff vs one enemy
Warlord daily 5: Staggering Spin - easy hit (multiple targets), basic attack granting
Warlord utility 6: Rousing Words - big heal minor encounter power
Warlord encounter 7: War of Attrition - need to hit hit/damage buff
Warlord daily 9: Warlord's Recovery - grant attack with used encounter power, recharge your own
Warlord utility 10: Instant Planning - big to-hit bonus, minor action - but daily

ITEMS
Luckblade Longsword +2, Recoil Shield Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Healer's Brooch +2, Fey-Blessed Circlet (heroic tier), Luckbender Gloves (heroic tier), Shielding Girdle (heroic tier), Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Drakescale Armor of Durability +2, Reckless Throwing hammer +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

The "problem" with this character is the encounter powers at level 3 and 7 which he needs to hit with to get any bang for the buck. The perfect target for these powers would probably be a brute and the worst target, a soldier.

PS: I have banned expertise from my campaign, otherwise this character would have taken it before Inspired Recovery pushing the other feats down two levels.

 

[Danceofmasks]

So, apparently you believe Warlords are weaker than Battle Clerics? You're going to have to make a better case for that than just listing powers they way you did in your first post. I've seen Battle Clerics in action, and while they are potent, they can't offer the kind of nova power that a well built TacLord can. And, judging from the comments of various posters on WotC's CharOp forum, the other Warlord builds are likewise similarly superior at nova promotion.

t~

edit: if you do want to make an extended debate on this, we should probably fork to another thread

Excuse me?
If by 'various posters' you mean people who say "you won't suffer too much to hit" and in the next sentence "grant awesome bonuses if you hit" it's by definition a fail at nova trigger.
Taclords need hitroll more than anything, 'cos on a miss they do bugger all.
Taclords also need too much int, 'cos that's the value of the bonuses they grant.
The only way a taclord's hitroll bonuses would be competitive with a battle cleric is if the battle cleric doesn't max strength. Or the cleric is in a party that is crap at melee, but that's a different story altogether.

 

[tiornys]

Battle Cleric vs. Warlord discussion forked here.

t~