Warmage (CA) vs. Sorcerer

[shilsen]

I just got my Complete Arcane today and was looking at the Warmage core class. Is it just me or does the class substantially outclass the PHB sorcerer in most areas? The only areas of advantage that I see the sorcerer having over the warmage is in being able to summon a familiar and being able to choose the spells known. The warmage, on the other hand, has a d6 hit die, proficiency with light armor/shields (and later, medium armor), a whole bunch of special abilities, and at any given point will know about thrice (I haven't counted the precise number) as many spells as a sorcerer of the same level.

Am I missing something?

 

[Darkness]

being able to choose the spells known.

That's exactly it.

All the warmage can do is blow stuff up. No fly. No dispel magic. No haste. (Almost) no other buffs. No mage armor (though he can use actual armor). No charm/dominate. No invisibility. No other illusions either. No divination. No summoning.

And blowing stuff up is often overrated in 3e.

The warmage makes good artillery but that's it.

 

[IronWolf]

I have a player in my game (newly started) that chose to play a warmage. He is aware he will not have access to many utility spells, but likes the fact he can have some light armor with no arcane failure penalty. His hit die was a d6 I believe. There was also an ability that let him add his Intelligence bonus to certain damage causing spells if I recall correctly. He is pretty excited about it. First game in the next two weeks or so, we'll see how it plays out and how much not having the utility spells will have an impact.

 

[shilsen]

That's exactly it.

All the warmage can do is blow stuff up. No fly. No dispel magic. No haste. (Almost) no other buffs. No mage armor (though he can use actual armor). No charm/dominate. No invisibility. No other illusions either. No divination. No summoning.

And blowing stuff up is often overrated in 3e.

The warmage makes good artillery but that's it.

Darkness - That's pretty much what I figured. I do agree that blowing up stuff is overrated in 3e, not to mention a little boring (personally speaking), so I don't care much for the warmage. But for someone playing a blaster-type mage, it seems to be streets ahead of the sorcerer (which generally does that role better than a wizard).

Ironwolf - Thanks. I forgot the d6 hit die. That's another factor in favor of the warmage.

 

[Tetsubo]

That's exactly it.

All the warmage can do is blow stuff up. No fly. No dispel magic. No haste. (Almost) no other buffs. No mage armor (though he can use actual armor). No charm/dominate. No invisibility. No other illusions either. No divination. No summoning.

And blowing stuff up is often overrated in 3e.

The warmage makes good artillery but that's it.

I haven't received my copy of CA yet (darn Amazon...). Can the Warmage use arcane items? That might balance them out a bit. From what I know about the Warmage they seem like a good second arcane caster in a party.

 

[Darkness]

But for someone playing a blaster-type mage, it seems to be streets ahead of the sorcerer (which generally does that role better than a wizard).

Yep, the Warmage certain excels at blasting.

I haven't received my copy of CA yet (darn Amazon...). Can the Warmage use arcane items? That might balance them out a bit.

Not any better than anyone else who, like him, doesn't get UMD skill. I.e., he can't use spell trigger (e.g., wands) or spell completion (e.g., scrolls) items based on spells he doesn't have on his list.

From what I know about the Warmage they seem like a good second arcane caster in a party.

Agreed.

 

[Doug McCrae]

The warmage benefits hugely from the feat Arcane Disciple in Complete Divine.

 

[Darkness]

The warmage benefits hugely from the feat Arcane Disciple in Complete Divine.

OMG. That's nifty keen for a Warmage.

 

[Brain]

You could even take it multiple times and get multiple whole domains. Indeed a very strong feat for a warmage, maybe too strong.

On the subject of their lack of defense, it is very evident. In a one-shot test game we ran tonight, the warmage's only defensive spell was wall of force, and that was one of his three extra evocation spells.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, as I said on the other Warmage vs. Sorcerer thread a few weeks ago, with Arcane Disciple (especially when taken multiple times), the Warmage is pretty good for sure.

Without, the Sorcerer wins the comparison hands down. No defensive/utility spells whatsoever is an immense disadvantage. Of course, the Warmage is the ultimate blaster arcanist (maybe on par with the Kineticist-Psion in that area, but overall no match, of course, for the same reasons).

Bye
Thanee