Warmage's 3rd-level Advanced Learning = Craptastic?

[hackmastergeneral]

What the.....ive heard of argent savant but not fiery argant savant.

In the description, towards the end, it talks about possible variants, and mentions you can use any elemental damage in place of the Force effect.

You could have an Acidic Argent Savant, or I guess technically it would be a Acidic Savant, but since the class is called Argent Savant, I keep the Argent in there to help with ease of understanding.

Thats where I got the idea for it (Complete Arcane), and when I looked at the Warmage spell list and saw buttloads of Fire-descriptor spells, my eyes lit up.

Seeing the Firey Spell feat in SS made me drool with the possibilities...

Check out page 24 of Complete Arcane, under the description of AS, where it says "Adaption". Its a better option for a Warmage type character than the "Elemental Savant" class, especially if your plans don't involve becoming an Outsider or Elementals at all. At its only a 5 level commitment. And it deals extra damage, where the ES doesn't. And it doesn't force you to cast all your energy-based spells as one type of energy all the time, as ES does.

 

[Question]

Losing a spellcasting level pretty much sucks though.

 

[hackmastergeneral]

Losing a spellcasting level pretty much sucks though.

Thats what "Practiced Spellcaster" is for. Lets you get up to 4 caster levels (but not the spells) back. If you only lose one SCL, you still get Ninth level spells. You only lose out on a few, and the Sudden Maximize class ability, which you can pick up for a feat anyway.

I'm losing THREE, as I took two levels of fighter to juice up my Ranged Touch options. PSC feat gave me those lost levels back, so I still get the effects of being a 12th level caster, despite having lost those levels. I'm gonna lose my 9th level spells, but the Warmage spell list for 9th is pretty underwhelming.

BUT:

If I'm within 30' of my opponent(which I always manouever myself to be - I now have a 32 AC - highest in the party), I am +15 to strike with a ranged touch spell (which I use almost exclusively - why use anything other than an Orb of Fire/Whatever as a WM, other than to hit multi-targets?), and +16 damage once I add all the bonuses in. I'll get a further +1 damage for every die of damage a Fire based spell does from the Fiery Spell feat(+12 damage for a 12th level Orb of Fire frex). Once I get 1st level FAS, that goes up to +22(1st level ability of a FAS), and only raises the spell level +1.

+22 damage, to me, ain't something to sneeze at, and

 

[Felon]

Damn, I was hoping I was missing that one spell that would make my warmage's day. The verdict seems to be craptastic.

 

[Felon]

If I'm within 30' of my opponent(which I always manouever myself to be - I now have a 32 AC - highest in the party), I am +15 to strike with a ranged touch spell (which I use almost exclusively - why use anything other than an Orb of Fire/Whatever as a WM, other than to hit multi-targets?), and +16 damage once I add all the bonuses in. I'll get a further +1 damage for every die of damage a Fire based spell does from the Fiery Spell feat(+12 damage for a 12th level Orb of Fire frex). Once I get 1st level FAS, that goes up to +22(1st level ability of a FAS), and only raises the spell level +1.

+22 damage, to me, ain't something to sneeze at, and

Ok, you're a 12th level character. You've got what, +7 BAB from your levels, and +2 from PBS and WF? Is the other +6 all Dex?

Your math here is hard to follow. You state that you a +16 damage bonus "once I add all the bonuses", but go on to specify a further +12 damage bonus to a 12d6 orb of fire thanks to the Fiery Spell feat. 12 and 16 adds up to 28. Then you state the 1st level FAS will boost you up to +22, when the ability would actually add another 12 points of damage to the mix, as it works the same way Fiery Spell does. That would push you significantly over +22.

I don't know what book "SS" is (Fiery Spell isn't in Savage Species). Is it WotC? At any rate, have you checked out Blistering Spell from PHBII?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

What exactly did you have your heart set on for a 1st level spell slot, Lesser Meteor Strike?

Good tips, Hackmaster, but I am taking a slightly different direction than you.

I took a boatload of the ranged combat feats, but also took EWP: Greatbow so that I have a function when my spell run out, or if we are facing mooks where I want to save my spells for later. I like the synergy with Accuracy, True Strike, and Flaming Arrows as well.

I am deciding between branching three ways.

1. Eldritch Knight: Stick with what I do now, nothing fancy.
2. Wildmage: Our group as a whole loves the gamble.
3. Arcane Archer: Just a dab to get Imbue Arrow then back to 1 or 2.

I guess I will see where the Age of Worms takes me.

DS

 

[hackmastergeneral]

Your math here is hard to follow. You state that you a +16 damage bonus "once I add all the bonuses", but go on to specify a further +12 damage bonus to a 12d6 orb of fire thanks to the Fiery Spell feat. 12 and 16 adds up to 28. Then you state the 1st level FAS will boost you up to +22, when the ability would actually add another 12 points of damage to the mix, as it works the same way Fiery Spell does. That would push you significantly over +22.

I don't know what book "SS" is (Fiery Spell isn't in Savage Species). Is it WotC? At any rate, have you checked out Blistering Spell from PHBII?

Thought I specified - Fiery Spell is from Sandstorm. Sorry for the confusion.

Warmage 10/Fighter 2

Dex: 20 +5, Int 21 +5, BAB +7,

Feats: Warmage Edge and Extra Edge (gives Int bonus to all spell damage, then +1 dam to WMedge +1/4 level; Weapon Focus (Ranged Touch) - +1 To hit with Ranged touch, Point Blank Shot - +1 attack/+ damage within 30', Practiced Spellcaster - effectively adds +2 to caster level to make up for -2 due to Fighter levels, Ranged Touch Specialization - +2 Damage with Ranged Touch, Fiery Spell - +1 damage to each die of damage from a fire spell.

Hit: 7 + 5 + 1 + 1 = + 14 to hit with a Ranged Touch spell at PB range. I was off by one as I didn't have my sheets to hand.

Damage: 1 Point Blank + 2 RTspec + 5 Int + 3 Extra Edge = +11 Damage (I screwed up my math. My GM is gonna shoot me - I was adding things wrong.)

The +22 damage was just for Fire based damage once I hit next level from the FAS plus Fiery Spell. The guy was saying that the loss of a caster level sucks. I'm saying its made up for by taking Practiced Spellcaster, and the +2 to all fire based damage dies. Its a trade off sure, and the trade off was bigger when I grabbed the 2 levels in Fighter to snag Ranged feats, specifically the Precise Shot to negate the -4 to fire into melee combat.

So, in the end, I'll have +14 to hit and +33 damage with a fire spell at Point Blank Range (which I almost always get to - with a 32 AC (and the up on damage is made up for the fact I was accidentally low-balling my AC with bad math for many moons. This would be why I am a Social Studies/English teacher... ), I don't mind getting close to combat.

I love Warmages - they are underappreciated. For sheer unadulterated fire power, they rock up until Wizards start getting ther high level .

 

[hackmastergeneral]

Dhelgarn's Persistant Blade from Magic of Faerun is your best option. Its the only one I saw that was worth taking.

I have used it a grand total of Three times, but it was useful when it did come up. We didn't have a Rogue in the party for a long time, but if you do, your Rogue will need down and kiss your hairy bean bag if your first spell cast into combat is Persistant Blade all the time.

Its the one "support" spell a WM can get thats really useful.

My next AdvLrn spell (which I had before PHB2) was Bigby's Slapping Hand, which saps an AoO from one foe if they don't make a DC20 Concentration check. This is a very useful spell if you can coordinate with the charging fighters and tumbling Rogues. Especially if you end up fighting Rogues, and can negate their Sneak Attacks (though most decently high level rogues will have Combat Reflexes, but its always worth a try).

I would shove the Advanced Lerning aside, and go Eclectic all the way. At that low level, Disrupt Undead might not be a bad choice, as once you start throwing WMedge on top, its still a decent spell to have to hand at any level. Get a Zombie down to almost dead, but don't want to waste a decent spell on it? Disrupt Undead, add WMedge, and its not awful untill you get medium level.

Mage Hand, Daze, Ghost Sound and hell, Resistance can make the diff between life or death.

Theres NO great choice at 3rd level AdvLrn. All the good and useful Evoc spells you already have. Even Pers. Blade is of limited utility (though its super helpful when it is).

But, don't discount those 0 level spells. Unless you have a Sorceror, your Wizard will be memorizing Read/Detect Magic and Detect Poison all the time, more than likely. A creative player can use Daze, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Message, or Prestidigitation to good effect, that can really make a difference in an encounter/situation. And Disrupt Undead is not the worst spell in the world, unless you never fight undead. And +1 to saving throws from Resistance is never a bad thing to have.

 

[Felon]

I love Warmages - they are underappreciated. For sheer unadulterated fire power, they rock up until Wizards start getting ther high level .

Well, in all fairness, other than the warmage edge class feature, you'd have that damage output with a wizard as well, plus a couple of bonus metamagic feats (which would net you blistering spell right there).

I actually multi-classed a favored soul/warmage (as mentioned in another thread around here), but am planning to respec out because I'm just tired of magic missile being the only 1st-level spell with a range greater than 30 feet (I've found that the 1-round casting time on hail of stones renders it too useless to count) and don't feel like waiting until 4th-level for that to change.

 

[glass]

Yep its craptastic.

Craptacular, even!


glass.