Was Reading My Mentzer Expert Rules and What did I see?

[Voadam]

Indeed. Perhaps I'm missing the whole point of the thread--perhaps my irony meter is turned down way too low--but surely it's fairly obvious it's an elf with a helmet, isn't it?

Nah, look at the shape of her face and head, the long proportions of the neck and body, obviously its a goatfolk woman.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Thing is, I've been repeatedly told how 4e isn't really D&D. It's too this or too that. Mostly I've been told that it has moved too far away from the roots of D&D. But, this image is the root of D&D for me. You've got the blaster mage, the weird assed elf chick (or whatever) and the black eyed dwarf? gnome? (hey gnomes had black eyes back then too )

Yes, D&D is Clive Caldwell and Larry Elmore. I get that. I agree too. But, it's also Erol Otus and Bill Willingham. It's also Brom and Di Terlizzi and Wayne Reynolds and a host of others too.

It's a complete mix mash of all sorts of styles and elements. The idea that "This fantasy" is the right one and "that fantasy" isn't just leaves me scratching my head.

Or, to put it another way, does it matter if a basilisk has four or eight legs?

Its Clyde Caldwell, and a basilisk has 6 legs. Appreciation for art is perhaps even more subjective than for gaming systems (if thats possible) so right and wrong don't really apply. Is just a matter of most to least liked.

 

[JeffB]

Nah, look at the shape of her face and head, the long proportions of the neck and body, obviously its a goatfolk woman.

Ahhh Broos...

so 4E=Moldvay/Cook=Runequest?


On a serious note: Wiillingham rocks, my fave D&D artist next to Jeff Dee. And Tramp and Sutherland right in behind them.

 

[Hussar]

Its Clyde Caldwell, and a basilisk has 6 legs. Appreciation for art is perhaps even more subjective than for gaming systems (if thats possible) so right and wrong don't really apply. Is just a matter of most to least liked.

Ahh, close on the Clyde/Clive thing, but, as we can see from the title of the thread, names are not my strong suit.

However, if you open up your Expert D&D book, you'll see that basilisks have 4 legs. Who'da thunk?

But, my favourite quote from the book would have to be:

As player characters grow in wealth and power, they may build castles or strongholds to keep themselves and their retainers safe. They may encourage settlements around their fortresses in order to support them, eventually becoming the rulers of their own territories. From their wilderness bases, they can settle and rule larger areas, bringing civilization to the wilderness.

And people say 4e ain't retro.

 

[Psion]

And people say 4e ain't retro.

(shrug) I for one don't think there's anything new or distinctive about "points of light". Did anyone here NOT find themselves defending little villages against looming threats in their edition of choice???

 

[Arnwyn]

My whole point, which was picked up nicely by a few here, is that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

That there are still goofy-looking helmets around? Yeah, I suppose so.

 

[Phaezen]

My whole point, which was picked up nicely by a few here, is that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Either that, or the WOTC retcon ninjas have struck!

Phaezen

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Either that, or the WOTC retcon ninjas have struck!

Phaezen

So what you are saying is that the reason the Edition Police don't break down your door and burn your old stuff--is because the black ops side has already replaced it with something very similar, but containing subtle alterations?

Those sneaky devils! And here the whole time, I thought the denial that they didn't break down your door was a simple answer to conspiracy theorists!

 

[Hussar]

(shrug) I for one don't think there's anything new or distinctive about "points of light". Did anyone here NOT find themselves defending little villages against looming threats in their edition of choice???

Shrug right back atcha.

I've read repeatedly, over and over again how 4e couldn't possibly be D&D. How it's a totally different game, so far removed from what went on before that it is barely recognizable.

Yet, when we start taking a look, all sorts of themes are pretty much the same.

- Goofy art showing weird assed characters? Check.
- Heroes that carve out a civilization out of the darkness? Check.

Or, how's this for comparison?

Designing a Wilderness

A. Decide on a Setting.
B. Draw a Map of the Area.
C. Place the Dungeon and the Base Town
D. Locate Areas under Human Control
E. Place Areas under Non-Human Control
F. Outline the Base town (In list of importance: Inns and townhouses for adventurers to rest); Churches (for Raise Dead); Thieves Guild (for information, market for treasure, smuggling, spies and hireling thieves); Town Militia (to keep an eye on the town - and the players!)
G. Fill in the Important Details and Points of Interest.
H. Create Special Encounter Tables and General Lairs.

Sounds pretty darn familiar to me. Looks pretty much exactly like how design is laid out in the 4e DMG.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Sounds pretty darn familiar to me. Looks pretty much exactly like how design is laid out in the 4e DMG.

Right you are. 4E says basically the same thing. I wonder why it took over two hundred pages to say what the Cook/Marsh Expert says in 64.