Was V's act evil? (Probable spoilers!)

[billd91]

"They pull a knife" was the title the rest of the saying is "you pull a gun, they send one of yours to the hospital you send one of theirs to the morgue" It is a statement made to Elliot Ness about how far he is willing to go to get Al Capone.

I am not "armchair quarterbacking" as some have suggested I may be. I know who I am and what measures I would put into play. If I have a problem with person 1 I take it to person 1 . If person 1 brings it back around to me more power to him I respect that. If instead he makes life more difficult for my kith and kin then I assume those are the rules by which he wants to play and involve his more so than he involved mine hoping that he learns that he ought not to do that.

The problem here being that the creature upon whom you want to impress the lesson is already dead. That's unlike the context in the Untouchables in which Ness was advised to put Capone's man in the morgue (if Ness's was put in the hospital)... not Capone himself. It was Capone you wanted to impress - the boss man, the man making the decisions, the man you wanted to realize was playing with fire. In the case of V and the dragon - who's the target to impress? The reanimated dragon that V now controls?

V is following the idea by escalating, but doing so foolishly because there's no higher individual upon which to make the impression. Unless Rich decides that V's spell has consequences... which I suspect he will.

 

[Zimri]

The problem here being that the creature upon whom you want to impress the lesson is already dead. That's unlike the context in the Untouchables in which Ness was advised to put Capone's man in the morgue (if Ness's was put in the hospital)... not Capone himself. It was Capone you wanted to impress - the boss man, the man making the decisions, the man you wanted to realize was playing with fire. In the case of V and the dragon - who's the target to impress? The reanimated dragon that V now controls?

V is following the idea by escalating, but doing so foolishly because there's no higher individual upon which to make the impression. Unless Rich decides that V's spell has consequences... which I suspect he will.

I quoted Untouchables because Rich did in the title. The target left to impress however is the same one that posters are saying now poses a problem for V and her family. That being "the kith and kin of the kin that was just slain". There could also be Tiamat but what she will do about this has been known to her for quite some time. That this was going to happen would not have escaped her knowing.

I'm also not so sure that Ness was so much trying to "impress" Capone.

 

[dmccoy1693]

In that case I'd say rather too much of the core rulebook is given over to ways to "stop" evil by killing it

I agree. Mind you this is from a guy that is currently playing a character that has taken a vow to never inflict lethal damage.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I agree. Mind you this is from a guy that is currently playing a character that has taken a vow to never inflict lethal damage.

I hope you don't get more than a half share of loot.

 

[Mikaze]

I hope you don't get more than a half share of loot.

Oh yes, we wouldn't want people being rewarded for badwrongfun now would we?

(has never run a campaign driven by killing things and taking their stuff)

 

[Remus Lupin]

There are a number of heads of state (former and current) of varying countries, creeds, and ethnicitys I would like to introduce you to.

Show me a head of state who did what V did, and I'll show you a candidate for a war crimes tribunal.

And what makesyou think that because a head of state does it, that renders it the act of a "reasonable intellect"?

 

[Remus Lupin]

No Politics, please.

My bad, I didn't See this before posting my reply.

 

[Krensky]

Whether or not Mark is, I am. And I do think others of reasonable intellect would agree. In fact, it would be one of the means I would use to evaluating if they were in fact of reasonable intellect.

This.

What would you have done in Her position ? You don't know how long you'll have the power to act, you can't cast divine spells, when your power fades anything you cast before hand will eventually fade with it. It has been shown that at least this particular family of black dragons WILL come seeking revenge, and will likely not come at you straight on but attack those close to you instead. Not just killing them mind you but torturing them for as long as possible after they are dead.

It has been shown this black dragon would come seeking revenge. It does not follow that any others would. They might, but the adult dragon's actions tell us nothing of her family or species.

I am not "armchair quarterbacking" as some have suggested I may be. I know who I am and what measures I would put into play. If I have a problem with person 1 I take it to person 1 . If person 1 brings it back around to me more power to him I respect that. If instead he makes life more difficult for my kith and kin then I assume those are the rules by which he wants to play and involve his more so than he involved mine hoping that he learns that he ought not to do that.

That you would do it does not mean that it's not Evil. V's actions were Evil. You killing someone's entire family tree to show then the error of their ways in threatening your family would be Evil.

 

[MarkB]

Are you sure about that Mark ? Would you say most people of reasonable intellect would share that position ?

Well, extrapolating a large group's behaviour from a single sample is, essentially, the definition of stereotyping. And applying that process to an ethnic group would be racial stereotyping, which is, to my knowledge, widely considered to be one of its worst forms.

So yeah, I'm pretty certain about it. And I don't have to speak for others, regardless of intellect - they can, and have, spoken for themselves on this subject.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

This is incredibly fascinating.

For those of you who continue to say "not evil," may I ask:

If a paladin in your game performed the act of slaying the dragon and all of its kin to the Nth generation, said paladin would not fall? Is that right?

"Not fall" is the logical result if you believe the act is "not evil," but I just want to make sure.