Was V's act evil? (Probable spoilers!)

[Nymrohd]

Honestly does anyone believe that Familicide was an efficient way for V to protect her/his family from retribution? It is utterly moronic. From having to worry about some associate or family member of one dragon V now has to worry about the associates of dozens of dragons and half-dragons if we go simply by what was shown in the strip, to potentially hundreds of dragons who will take an act of genocide against a strain of their species quite seriously, as well as an evil deity who has retribution on her portfolio and her entire church. And V will not always have the infinite power of the splice to make victory against any force feel certain. V is powermad and either amazingly deluded and stupid for a high level wizard or simply entirely driven by vengeance and ignoring all practical concerns involving the safety of his/her family.

 

[jeffh]

How , precisely, does the frame of mind or emotional response of the killer change the results of the action ?

It doesn't. That was my point. You're treating these two separate issues as though they were interchangeable. This muddies the debate generally and, in this particular context, also betrays a deep misunderstanding of how alignment works.

Even if - and I can't emphasize enough the if - this turns out to have good overall consequences and to protect rather than further endanger V's family - it still was not an act that was even remotely compatible with a Good, or even GE Neutral, alignment.

 

[Zimri]

Extrapolating the behaviour of an entire race from the actions of one person is the worst kind of stereotyping, and not even vaguely realistic.

Are you sure about that Mark ? Would you say most people of reasonable intellect would share that position ?

 

[Zimri]

It doesn't. That was my point. You're treating these two separate issues as though they were interchangeable. This muddies the debate generally and, in this particular context, also betrays a deep misunderstanding of how alignment works.

Even if - and I can't emphasize enough the if - this turns out to have good overall consequences and to protect rather than further endanger V's family - it still was not an act that was even remotely compatible with a Good, or even GE Neutral, alignment.

And I certainly don't find an argument that morally justifies doing it with obvious glee, in a manner deliberately calculated to make one of those beings suffer as much as possible.

I don't think I am using them interchangeably at all. I don't care if she was happy sad or just doing the business that needed doing. I am not considering her "feelings" on the matter. I am looking at what was done and finding it was a logical and understandable thing to do.

you were the one to mention "obvious glee" to which I was replying. How she feels about doing what she did doesn't make them less dead if she feels badly or more dead if she is obviously gleeful.

Some people seem just fine with what the ABD proposed doing as they want to toss V to the nine hells for doing something far less long term and painful. She "just" killed things, mostly evil things that an archetype of their species had just proved were vengeful, malicious, and devious. Whereas on this first trip round the spiral V's family was going to be tortured forever.

Parents protect their children (biological offspring or not), Lovers guard their mates. And her standoffishness may very well be tied to "of all people I don't want them to see me like this"

 

[Remus Lupin]

Are you sure about that Mark ? Would you say most people of reasonable intellect would share that position ?

Whether or not Mark is, I am. And I do think others of reasonable intellect would agree. In fact, it would be one of the means I would use to evaluating if they were in fact of reasonable intellect.

 

[Zimri]

Honestly does anyone believe that Familicide was an efficient way for V to protect her/his family from retribution? It is utterly moronic. From having to worry about some associate or family member of one dragon V now has to worry about the associates of dozens of dragons and half-dragons if we go simply by what was shown in the strip, to potentially hundreds of dragons who will take an act of genocide against a strain of their species quite seriously, as well as an evil deity who has retribution on her portfolio and her entire church. And V will not always have the infinite power of the splice to make victory against any force feel certain. V is powermad and either amazingly deluded and stupid for a high level wizard or simply entirely driven by vengeance and ignoring all practical concerns involving the safety of his/her family.

Thank you for calling me a moron. I rather appreciate it.

What would you have done in Her position ? You don't know how long you'll have the power to act, you can't cast divine spells, when your power fades anything you cast before hand will eventually fade with it. It has been shown that at least this particular family of black dragons WILL come seeking revenge, and will likely not come at you straight on but attack those close to you instead. Not just killing them mind you but torturing them for as long as possible after they are dead.

If the ABD wanted revenge kill V, kill the whole order but that wasn't what she did. She brought this about by involving family and loved ones.

"They pull a knife" was the title the rest of the saying is "you pull a gun, they send one of yours to the hospital you send one of theirs to the morgue" It is a statement made to Elliot Ness about how far he is willing to go to get Al Capone.

I am not "armchair quarterbacking" as some have suggested I may be. I know who I am and what measures I would put into play. If I have a problem with person 1 I take it to person 1 . If person 1 brings it back around to me more power to him I respect that. If instead he makes life more difficult for my kith and kin then I assume those are the rules by which he wants to play and involve his more so than he involved mine hoping that he learns that he ought not to do that.

 

[Zimri]

Whether or not Mark is, I am. And I do think others of reasonable intellect would agree. In fact, it would be one of the means I would use to evaluating if they were in fact of reasonable intellect.

There are a number of heads of state (former and current) of varying countries, creeds, and ethnicitys I would like to introduce you to.

 

[Creamsteak]

Unquestionably evil, in my game. Unless it is an outsider, alignment is a rough descriptor of what the person/creature has done and what they are likely to do in the future, but nothing is ever 100%. I have good goblins, evil gold dragons, and everything in between.

V just committed genocide.

Genocide.

This, but with the caveat "depending on the campaign setting, the campaign itself, and the game we're playing at the time."

 

[Umbran]

There are a number of heads of state (former and current) of varying countries, creeds, and ethnicitys I would like to introduce you to.

No Politics, please.

 

[Zimri]

Gotta say, I'm sympathetic, particularly since the previous poster specified that any and all violence must be done in the maximally horrific way, if it is to be done at all, in order (contradictorally, it seems to me) to ensure its "last resortness."

I don't see the contradiction (which isn't that odd considering I'm the one who said it first in this thread but not the first ever)

Combat, war, if you will, should not be something entered into lightly. It is a grave undertaking and should not be anywhere near the top of the list of "how do we solve this disagreement". There are consequences, dire ones for all sides the winners, the losers, those in the middle and those left behind. If you are going to do it, you should do it to win definitively, so definitively that it takes generations for people to think "hey this war thing may be a good idea instead of this talking or just ignoring one another"