Unearthed Arcana Waterborne Adventures: New from Unearthed Arcana

I, for one, am very pleased with the different options for existing classes over completely different classes.

I don't really have an balance thoughts. Balance isn't an issue with me unless it's incredibly flagrant.

 

[hbarsquared]

Peefaced with the fact I have ojny surreptitiously glanced through the article....

So. Much. Awesome.

I love the thematic introduction of multiple elements. Mariner fihting style, in particular, was out of the blue - but the idea makes sense and I appreciate the designers being experimental and contijuing to playtest with the community.

Krynn Minotaurs, Swashbuckling, Storm Sorcerer! In one article? Yes, please! Love it! More!

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'd just as soon not let them do either rather than let them do one or the other but not both (because what's going on in the fiction there?)

So, we're getting way into personal interpretation here, now, but...

I don't view a "prone-shove" as being as simple as a "move-shove." There has to be some measure of tripping or throwing or twisting involved. A foot behind their ankle, a partial turn on impact, something to actually drive them down and/or take them off-balance. A straightforward shove is only going to move them back, under most circumstances.

The minotaur shove is, as I see it, always straightforward. It's a fearsome headbutt, or the like. It's fast, strong, and--more to the point in this case--direct. There's no maneuvering to get a foot (hoof?) behind the other person. There's no downward yank. It's "lower the head and smash."

Again, all my own interpretation, but there are ways--ways that aren't even forced --to make it work in the narrative.

 

[Eric V]

Storm Sorcerers get added spells known, as did the Favored Soul. I wonder if this is some form of "stealth errata," and they've come to the conclusion that sorcerers need more of those.

I tend to think this is very much so.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I'm not a fan of Panache as written, as it presents a lack of choice. Even Compelled Duel, which IS basically mind control, at least gave a choice - attack me, or attack my friends at a disadvantage. The lack of action required to maintain, lack of being broken by friends, etc feels off.

Also, the non-combat effect is simply too good. Win an insight contest to gain advantage to all charisma checks with no downside and no cost of resources? Sign me up!

I'll fight tooth and nail with anyone using v-tude as a reason to keep fighters from having nice things (come and get it is sorely missed), but this feels a bit much regardless of martial or magic.

I love the term ribbons!

 

[Kobold Stew]

Great article, with lost of compelling options. I really like the greyed boxes, looking under the hood at the motivations for choices made. It helps make sense of what they're thinking ("ribbons" especially). All in all an exciting article!

FIGHTER

The Mariner fighting style is quite flavorful for only being a small change. I like that. Technically it's power creep for the small niche of PCs who don't use heavy armor but would take Defensive, but I like it.

The Mariner fighting style looks excellent, and makes a 1-level dip in Fighter *very* desirable for a rogue.
It does water down defensive, as that's now only going to be taken by someone intending only ever to use heavy armour.

I would have preferred a combat style that gave you some sort of benefit for fighting one-handed without a shield.

This already exists in Dueling style, though, doesn't it?

ROGUE

Does the 3rd level power mean that the swashbuckler can always use sneak attack? (Use it if an ally is within 5' of the target as normal per rogue, and use SA if no ally is adjacent to the target with this.)

Evidently, yes, and so three levels of rogue would synergies powerfully for any fighter/Paladin/Ranger. I'd suggest limiting it to 1/round.
Note also that it doesn't specify needing to meet the other conditions of Sneak attack, and so (for example) as written the attack does not need to be with a finesse weapon. That too is an oversight, and not intended.

MINOTAUR

the 'always on' 1D10 weapon seems a bit too much....I would probably put the Horns at 1D6, and Goring Rush do 2D6 damage.

That was my instinct as well: either 1d6 or 1d8.

Horns are a weapon but decidedly not a "monk weapon." Which means a monk hitting with them is like a monk hitting with a greatsword or whatever...not much synergy..

I agree -- I think the answer is to treat the horns as a heavy weapon: that would clean that up with no fallout.

It also beings up the question about Dual Wielding a Greastsword and Horns.

No: the wording (p. 195) is specific that each weapon needs to be in one hand.

 

[spinozajack]

I haven't evaluated them for balance, but this is precisely the kind of thing I want to see more of in Unearthed Arcana - bits of rules that fit particular campaign types while not being useless for others. I just might incorporate the pirotaurs into my homebrew (who knew Dragonlance had useful stuff in it?), and the Swashbuckler rogue gives a nice alternative to the current negative-stereotyped thief and assassin subclasses.

Some quick thoughts on balance:

At first glance, minotaurs look a bit weak stats-wise (either +2 to Str, or +1 to Str and one of Int and Wis), but on the other hand they have some very good racial traits: a d10 natural weapon with some nice special abilities layered on top of it.

Swashbucklers will always sneak attack in melee: basic rogue rules say you can sneak attack a foe that is adjacent to an ally of yours, and swashbuckler says you can sneak attack a foe that isn't. I'm going to go ahead and interpret the phrasing "any melee attack" as not overriding the general sneak attack rule about only working once per turn, because otherwise it would be completely broken.

Storm Sorcerers get added spells known, as did the Favored Soul. I wonder if this is some form of "stealth errata," and they've come to the conclusion that sorcerers need more of those.

Their horns should be heavy so you can GWM them. Otherwise they get rather meh after 4th level.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Note also that it doesn't specify needing to meet the other conditions of Sneak attack, and so (for example) as written the attack does not need to be with a finesse weapon. That too is an oversight, and not intended.

I don't think it needs to specify that. It's a power that modifies Sneak Attack. Therefore, all rules and limitations of SA still apply, except for those that are specifically called out. It would only need to specify if it did change the weapon requirements.

 

[Kithys]

I don't think it needs to specify that. It's a power that modifies Sneak Attack. Therefore, all rules and limitations of SA still apply, except for those that are specifically called out. It would only need to specify if it did change the weapon requirements.

Exactly right, it only changes what it specifically states that it changes, no more or less

 

[spinozajack]

Great article, with lost of compelling options. I really like the greyed boxes, looking under the hood at the motivations for choices made. It helps make sense of what they're thinking ("ribbons" especially). All in all an exciting article!

FIGHTER

The Mariner fighting style looks excellent, and makes a 1-level dip in Fighter *very* desirable for a rogue.
It does water down defensive, as that's now only going to be taken by someone intending only ever to use heavy armour.

This already exists in Dueling style, though, doesn't it?

ROGUE

Evidently, yes, and so three levels of rogue would synergies powerfully for any fighter/Paladin/Ranger. I'd suggest limiting it to 1/round.
Note also that it doesn't specify needing to meet the other conditions of Sneak attack, and so (for example) as written the attack does not need to be with a finesse weapon. That too is an oversight, and not intended.

MINOTAUR

That was my instinct as well: either 1d6 or 1d8.

I agree -- I think the answer is to treat the horns as a heavy weapon: that would clean that up with no fallout.

No: the wording (p. 195) is specific that each weapon needs to be in one hand.

Disagree. How often do PCs lose their weapons? It happens, but not all that much.

1d10 weapon for an attack is not very powerful. A similar weapon costs what, 10gp? And how exactly does one magick them? Not easily, that's for sure. It's a flavor item, that's all.

Barbarians and monks can have decent AC wearing shorts. Is that overpowered? I don't think so. 1d10 damage is like a longsword two-handed, or a halberd without reach. Hardly anything to write home about.

I agree with the horns being heavy, but for the opposite reason as you. I would like to see them used beyond 4th level in a campaign where a PC took it. The negatives of looking like a monster would greatly outweigh the positives in many campaigns. Plus their stats aren't super awesome either. I like it, though.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Even if they are 1d10 and simple melee weapons I would still rather be a wood elf monk with a spear.

The minotaur gets 1d10 versus my 1d8 but I get +1 to hit, +1 damage, +1 AC, +1 initiative and other bonuses like darkvision, +5 movement, easier hiding, etc.

If you're gonna compare the whole race, then compare the whole race

Ability Scores
Welfmonk w/a spear (2 hands): 17 Dex, 15 Wis, 13 Con, 12 Str, Int / Cha 10 / 8
Baseline Human w/Spear (2 handed): 16 Dex, 15 Wis, 14 Con, 13 Str, Int / Cha 11 / 9
Monkotaur w/horns-as-monk-weapon: 15 Dex, 15 Wis, 13 Con, 13 Str, Int / Cha 10 / 8
(Experimental Str-based Monkotaur): 17 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Wis, 12 Con, Int / Cha 10 / 8

Defenses
Welf: AC 15, HP 9, Str +3, Dex +5
Baseline Human: AC 15, HP 10, Str +3, Dex +5
Monkotaur: AC 14, HP 9, Str +3, Dex +4
(Experiment: AC 14, HP 9, Str +5, Dex +4)

Offenses
Welf: Spear (2 handed) +5:7 (1d8+3), bonus action unarmed strike +5:5 (1d4+3)
Baseline Human: Spear (2 handed) +5:7 (1d8+3), bonus action unarmed strike +5:5 (1d4+3)
Monkotaur: Horns +4:7 (1d10+2), bonus action unarmed strike +4:4 (1d4+2)
(Experiment: Horns +5:8 (1d10+3), bonus action unarmed strike +5:5 (1d4+3))

Miscellandous

• Welf is faster by 5 ft, and makes a good scout (stealth and perception enhancements)
• Baseline Human: Nothing to speak of.
• Monkotaur: Recall makes a good scout, and is consistently dealing damage - 1d10 as a bonus action with the goring rush beats almost anything else you can spend that bonus action on when you take the Dash action. Limit is that you can't do it and attack on the same turn. It doesn't combine well with a monk using bonus actions for...everything...

So it's competitive, I'd say. You're trading being easier to hit (AC -1) for higher damage (1d10+3). Not an automatic trade off, but sexy to someone who wants to be a damage-dealing monk.

The horns also clearly don't combine with two weapon fighting based on RAW ("a light melee weapon you are holding in the other hand."), so you can't deal this 1d10 damage as a bonus action with anything other than your goring charge.

So it seems balanced enough, if you consider the minotaur's horns to be a monk weapon (the "simple" solution).

Of course, the logic here is a little off-kilter - why I'm NOT hitting things with my horns when fighting "unarmed"?

But the logic of the minotaur monk just not being able to use Martial Arts (because they're never unarmed and horns aren't a monk weapon) is probably more tortured.