Thank you! Took me two years and a thousand posts around here to develop it! You seem to be coming along very quickly, though... bravo.
All other factors are not equal.
The Silent Image has been created by a wizard who spent a feat on [Heighten Spell] and has spent two spell levels to increase the power of the spell. And for his trouble he still can't make sound. So he's still limited in what he can do. That's punishment enough. And no, I don't see a problem with that picture, because in this case we have no circumstances to penalize or reward either spell!
If you can't, as a DM, manage to grow beyond +2/-2 Circumstance Mods for dire circumstances, then I reccommend against adjudicating illusion spells. +2/-2 are neither hard and fast rules, nor are they the limit to which a DM can modify.
If an illusion of one of my old college roomates shows up, and he's not burping, farting and smelling awfully, there will be more than a +2 circumstance bonus to my save. It might even be +4. Or +6. Or whatever. You the DM think circumstances warrant making it harder on the wizard? Then make it more than 2.
The only blanket around here is my security blanket, and you can't have it. Thbbbbt.
I don't really know how to interact with a wall too well. Besides touching it, I mean. Do you do it often? Because when you interact with that wall physically, you earn yourself incontrovertable physical proof that the wall is not real... and you automatically make your save. Voila!
But until you interact with it, you don't even get a save. So I guess you could say you "automatically fail" in a way. So there's the save DC increase you're so keen for... it makes believeable and inconspicuous illusions harder to disbelieve because people are less likely to interact with inconspicuous and believeable things.
So... in one circumstance when the illusionist created an image of a screaming child, you would apply a bonus to the person's saving throw?
And in another, different circumstance you would not?
Or... you might, given a third circumstance, even penalize to some degree an unfortunate's saving throw?
And furthermore, these penalties and bonuses would generally have nothing to do with the spell itself but rather the situation?
Finally! We agree! ... and they're in the DMG already.
Read much? I said generally. As in, "in general". Or, "it is the general case that". And, "generally speaking". Even, "one would generally find".
What does this word mean to you besides stars on the shoulder-boards? To me, it means that there can be exceptions. What kind of exceptions?
--If a powerful mage trains his underlings to create illusions of terrifying creatures.
--A first level mage was a survivor of an attack by beholders on a wagon-train.
--The 1st level illusionist name is Mowgli and grew up with beholders.
So of course there are exceptions. But in any case, these exceptions are all rooted in what the character has experienced in his life.
I know this is the Rules Forum, but I didn't see the sign saying "check your imagination at the hyperlink". An illusionist is not limited to what's in the real world, the monster manual, or the Codex of Infinite Planes. It's limited to his experience and his imagination. And if my player can imagine a puss-oozing, teeth gnashing, brain sucking, fecal smelling, floating gnanderblarg, then I'm not going to penalize him because I can't get my own imagination working by saying "that doesn't sound like something in the Monster Manual to me! The guards get +2 to their Will save because there's magic in the world."
About as accurately as you've summarized any of my arguments, yes.
Oh so you don't agree with what I said earlier?
me said:
I guess you don't. That, or you missed what I wrote, I guess.
Why is that impossible? Making it a little hard on wizards arn't you if they can't capture rare species?
Are you feeling ok? Because this is a bit of an exaggeration, even for you. I hope you don't mean to be putting these words in my mouth like you've tried with others because they look rather silly tasting.
And if you want to imagine up a beachball with lollypops to amuse the kiddies, that'll work. But I don't know why you'd want to use that to get into a city... the door usually works better.
But really, who's to say which guards have seen a beholder and which haven't? Who's to say that in the face of floating, eye-stalked evil the guards will bolt? Who's to say that in a world that has magic, not everyone takes ranks in Knowledge(arcane) and know fake Beholders when they see them? The DM. And if you DM a world where Joe the Security Guard has so much magic in his life that seeing a beholder floating up to him will evoke a " 'at's not a real Be'older, guv." Then have fun, I'll be sitting it out.
---
Silent Image lacks sound, smell, and thermals.
Minor Image lacks less.
Major Image lacks even less.
Where do you get the idea that somewhere along the line the visual information relayed by the spell improves? After all, these spells say "As silent image, except", and nothing in the spell descriptions say "the visuals in this one are more vivid."
Why? Because you don't want illusionist PCs walking over you? Or because "whatever you can think of" is too much for you? For a spell school that apparently has trouble with Detect Magic (where'd you go Ogrork?) you seem to want to limit it.
This is the school that gives the player the most room to play with his mind, and create fantastic things of nothing, even if they arn't real. For goodness sakes... let them play.
I remember this one. Pee Wee's Big Adventure, right? I know you are but what am I? A little childish for Rules discussions I would have thought, but here we are.
Or you could keep it simple and use your common sense combined with circumstance bonuses. Your choice.
Once again, I'll use the Quote button a lot...
"Have your character seen it?"
"Yes": Go to town.
"No": Out of luck, or come up with your own creature.
That seems like a binary operation... quatifiable enough?
Guideline:
If you think it's too complex, circumstance penalty it.
If you think it's very simple, circumstance bonus it.
Will these do?
I suggest that as the circumstances become more extreme, you use bigger modifiers.
I like this game...
A good idea!
But then, even a blind squirell sometimes finds an acorn.
Last edited:
