D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Micah Sweet]

Why? How does it help consistency to say "all PCs, who basically learn from the School of Hard Knocks, are automatically able to learn all spells no matter how people study, live, research, or learn"? To me that might strengthen mechanical consistency but it actively harms the fidelity of the setting.

Who said anything about automatic? You want to do what the NPC does, you learn how they did it and do it too.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Well...yeah. "mundane" and "has superpowers" are mutually exclusive.

No.. they are not.

Birds fly all the time. Would we say that birds are "not mundane" because they have the gift of flight?

I'd hope not.

 

[TwoSix]

Yet somehow with far more hit points.

Not in my games. Hit point scale with level for humanoid NPCs.

My 15th level NPC I referenced earlier had 15d8+45 hp, which came out to be 122.

I say NPCs are weaker for their level because they generally are higher "leveled", but the abilities a 15th level NPC would have are generally not equivalent to the loadout of a 15th level PC.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No. That's not the issue. The issue is that you regard the mechanics as a physics engine for the setting. I regard them as an approximate representation and user interface.

I wouldn't mind the rules to be more of a physics engine than they are, to be honest. My tweaks to 5e and using Level Up helps with that, but I also look at other D&D-adjacent games that suit my preferences.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No.. they are not.

Birds fly all the time. Would we say that birds are "not mundane" because they have the gift of flight?

I'd hope not.

Flight isn't a superpower for (most) birds.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What? That's not true at all.

I place primacy on the fiction, not the mechanics. If the fiction dictates something happens or is true, then the mechanics must follow the fiction. If it's necessary to invoke the mechanics at all...which it generally isn't. I'm very much a fiction-first referee and player. The mechanics are a poor representation of the fiction and must be regularly changed to match the fiction. The fiction is not, nor should it be, limited by the mechanics.

I thought you were a 4e fan?

 

[Vaalingrade]

And this 'consistency' argument goes back to that thread a few weeks ago where we can't have a better game because people won't accept that it is a game and needs to have some gamist elements.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Here's an example.

In a recent game I DMed, a major NPC that both fought and later allied with the PCs was a drow who was a savant with teleportation magic. The NPC was 15th level equivalent (had 15 Hit Dice) and had these abilities:

Magic missile, cast at 3rd level, at-will
Armor of agathys, cast at 4th level, swapped to force damage instead of cold, 1/SR
Arcane gate at will
Create permanent teleport circle with 1 full day of work and 1000gp in rare, specialized reagents

Definitely one of the best NPCs I've played, and the players both hated and loved him. But, I feel like there's several people on this thread who would tell me I'm playing incorrectly by running a humanoid NPC that has abilities that are completely out of the bounds of a "normal" PC build.

Was he one of the best NPCs you've played because of how his mechanics worked?

 

[Raiztt]

No.. they are not.

Birds fly all the time. Would we say that birds are "not mundane" because they have the gift of flight?

I'd hope not.

This misses the point that mundane/supernatural is entirely relational/contextual.

By your argument, a human going into stasis in a hard vacuum like a water bear would not be supernatural.

 

[Raiztt]

And this 'consistency' argument goes back to that thread a few weeks ago where we can't have a better game because people won't accept that it is a game and needs to have some gamist elements.

There are lots of board games, my dude, take your pick.