I'd love to use google plus, but apparently I missed my chance to join. I'll have to wait until google plus opens back up.
Ways to play D&D online?
I'd love to use google plus, but apparently I missed my chance to join. I'll have to wait until google plus opens back up.
IronWolf
blank
Send me a PM and I can send you an invite.
Steel_Wind
Legend
I've been playing one to two regular games each week online for the past 14 months. We've tried D20Pro and Fantasy Grounds 1 and 2. But to be completely honest? While each VTT has its plusses and minuses, they each still feel like playing a computer game to one degree or another. A fun computer game; a very entertaining computer game, even. But for all of that, it's still has a computer game feel to it all. And that's something we can do without.
Skype Video + Justin.TV for the Win
What we have had the most success with is pretty simple: Skype, a decent microphone, 2 decent cameras, battlemats, flip-mats, minis, dice, diet-coke and pizza. You know, gaming stuff. In other words, the only technology involved is the part with which we communicate with each other, and which shows you each others' faces and the battlemat. The rest is exactly like it always is.
Here is what we use:
Hardware
1 x Good omnidirectional microphone. If you are going to be running the entire game remotely (i.e., no actual players in the room with the GM) then you can skip this and just use a headset. If you want a player(s) live at the game and have others remotely, you want to use an omnidirectional microphone at the table. The [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Snowball-Microphone-White/dp/B000EOPQ7E"]Blue Snowball[/ame] or the [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Yeti-USB-Microphone/dp/B002VA464S/ref=pd_cp_MI_1"]Blue Yeti 2[/ame] are USB microphones which work extremely well for this purpose;
2x Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD webcams. Don't pay extra for the 1080p cams -- the 720p cams are the ones you want. Don't go for the cheaper notebook camera, either. You want 2x cameras of [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-LifeCam-Cinema-Webcam-Black/dp/B002MCZJ78"]this model[/ame];
1 x Microphone boom. You don't use this for the microphone, actually. Instead, you use this boom to position the camera over the Battlemat. You can pick one up on ebay for about $20.
Software
Skype: Yes, at least one person in the video conference has to pay monthly. But it's only one person and it's only $7/mo. If you had to count the cost of transportation to and from a weekly game, EACH player would be paying at leat that in in overwhelming majority of cases.
(Optional) Webcammax: You only need this software if the DM is only going to be using ONE computer to manage the session. If you use two computers (a desktop and a laptop, say) then you don't need this.
Justin.TV: Follow their instructions for setting up the upload feed to Justin.TV. It's not hard. While you can send audio to Justin.TV (and we do for viewing purposes by podcast listeners) nobody actually involved in the game listens to the game through Justin. We all mute the Justin.TV feed. Audio for us is exclusively through Skype.
Setup
Players: Ideally, each player has their own webcam and a headset. Optimally, they want to have two monitors. Skype will be running on one monitor and Justin.TV will be running via Firefox on the other monitor. You can use an iPad for the Justin.TV app if you prefer. Either will work fine.
GameMaster: Ideally, you want to use two computers. Neither computer needs to be particularly robust. Put the computer with more horsepower on Skype detail.
Computer One: The more robust of your two computers runs Skype video and will act as your main communication hub for player to player;
Computer Two: This computer runs Justin.TV. It's only purpose is to send a streaming video to Justin.TV of the Battlemat.
(Optional): Put your Skype Video Monitor on the tabletop so your local players can see your remote players.
(Optional): You can use WebcamMax to support some picture-in-picture effects over Skype, but I would leave this approach alone for now.
Note: The GM should not be using wireless to connect to the internet. This is a bandwidth heavy task and direct wired connections should always be used. Players might get away with wireless depending on their connection, but the GM can't.
Setup In Actual Use
If you have only one remote player, Skype video is free. As soon as you add a third to the conference, at least one person present must have a Skype video account. which costs one person $7 monthly. If you were used to free conferencing (like we were) this sucks -- but really -- it's not a big deal.
Your players see each other in Skype and talk to each other in Skype. The players will use the feed from Justin.TV to view the battlemat.
Ideally, players want to be using two monitors off of one machine on each player's end. Most desktop video cards support this, and there are a surprising number of extra LCD and CRT monitors floating around most gamers' homes. This sounds like a "Cadillac" setup but for most gamers with a job, it's comes at a "Pinto" price.
Playing the Game
As for playing? This is the best part. Just play the damn game like you would a normal session of D&D, Pathfinder or whatever. The only thing you need to remember is that it is hard to hear people if they are talking over one another. Players learn very quickly not to do this.
The Result
It doesn't feel "sort of" like face-to-face gaming or, "mostly" like face-to-face gaming. It feels EXACTLY like face-to-face gaming because that's exactly what it is. The only difference is that you can't see player's die rolls and you have to trust them. That's the only difference in the game. That's it; that's all.
Remote players will be heard over your speakers. Remote players will hear whatever the Blue Microphone pick up (and a Blue Mic will pick up almost everything). Your local players can be spread out all over the room using either Blue microphone in omni-directional mode -- and the mic will pick it up. If they are all at the table? Even better.
When you need to, you physically pull back the camera over the battlemat, or push it in when you want to give remote players a better view of the mat. That's why you pick up a cheap $20 boom stand off of eBay. Worth every penny. (Really, don't skip on the boom.)
I swear that I have NEVER had a better view of the Battlemat and the minis in play live in person as I do when zoomed in remotely using Justin.TV.
In fact, it is such a pain in the ass for me to travel to and from games with my local group on the other side of Toronto, I actually prefer Skype conferencing in to my local gaming group now. With my truly remote game (I am in Toronto, my Kingmaker game is hosted in the San Franciso Bay Area) it's still just like being there. Really. You TOTALLY get used to it. I love it. Our Kingmaker campaign has the GM and two players in SF. The other players are flung out all over the place in LA, Toronto, Atlanta and in Washington State.
Why We Switched Away from using a VTT
After 9 months of Skype plus cams, we tried d20Pro for our Carrion Crown campaign using Skype+ d20Pro. While there are some interesting features that d20Pro offers, in the end, we reverted back to just using Skype and multiple cameras. There are plusses and minuses to each, sure, but when it comes right down to it? Rolling bones and moving minis over Skype and Justin doesn't just "feel like real gaming" -- it IS real gaming.
Screw this VTT stuff. Give me bones and minis and a battlemat any day.
The Drawbacks of Skype+Justin.TV
The worst part is when some of us order pizza and the remote players aren't there to share. So we just usually all order pizza at the same time. Yes, really.
That's the biggest payoff you get from Skype plus Justin. The tech just goes away and you play the damn game.
I met one of the players in my Kingmaker campaign for the first time face-to face last week at Gencon. I wasn't meeting a stranger -- I was meeting a close gaming buddy who I see every week over the gaming table and have for over a year. Yes, really.
Skype + Justin.TV ROCKS.
What does a game look like using all of this?
I can't show you our Skype video conference, as we don't broadcast that part of our game. But you can otherwise see and hear how the game looks by checking out recordings of our various Pathfinder Campaigns here.
Skype Video + Justin.TV for the Win
What we have had the most success with is pretty simple: Skype, a decent microphone, 2 decent cameras, battlemats, flip-mats, minis, dice, diet-coke and pizza. You know, gaming stuff. In other words, the only technology involved is the part with which we communicate with each other, and which shows you each others' faces and the battlemat. The rest is exactly like it always is.
Here is what we use:
Hardware
1 x Good omnidirectional microphone. If you are going to be running the entire game remotely (i.e., no actual players in the room with the GM) then you can skip this and just use a headset. If you want a player(s) live at the game and have others remotely, you want to use an omnidirectional microphone at the table. The [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Snowball-Microphone-White/dp/B000EOPQ7E"]Blue Snowball[/ame] or the [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Yeti-USB-Microphone/dp/B002VA464S/ref=pd_cp_MI_1"]Blue Yeti 2[/ame] are USB microphones which work extremely well for this purpose;
2x Microsoft LifeCam Cinema HD webcams. Don't pay extra for the 1080p cams -- the 720p cams are the ones you want. Don't go for the cheaper notebook camera, either. You want 2x cameras of [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-LifeCam-Cinema-Webcam-Black/dp/B002MCZJ78"]this model[/ame];
1 x Microphone boom. You don't use this for the microphone, actually. Instead, you use this boom to position the camera over the Battlemat. You can pick one up on ebay for about $20.
Software
Skype: Yes, at least one person in the video conference has to pay monthly. But it's only one person and it's only $7/mo. If you had to count the cost of transportation to and from a weekly game, EACH player would be paying at leat that in in overwhelming majority of cases.
(Optional) Webcammax: You only need this software if the DM is only going to be using ONE computer to manage the session. If you use two computers (a desktop and a laptop, say) then you don't need this.
Justin.TV: Follow their instructions for setting up the upload feed to Justin.TV. It's not hard. While you can send audio to Justin.TV (and we do for viewing purposes by podcast listeners) nobody actually involved in the game listens to the game through Justin. We all mute the Justin.TV feed. Audio for us is exclusively through Skype.
Setup
Players: Ideally, each player has their own webcam and a headset. Optimally, they want to have two monitors. Skype will be running on one monitor and Justin.TV will be running via Firefox on the other monitor. You can use an iPad for the Justin.TV app if you prefer. Either will work fine.
GameMaster: Ideally, you want to use two computers. Neither computer needs to be particularly robust. Put the computer with more horsepower on Skype detail.
Computer One: The more robust of your two computers runs Skype video and will act as your main communication hub for player to player;
Computer Two: This computer runs Justin.TV. It's only purpose is to send a streaming video to Justin.TV of the Battlemat.
(Optional): Put your Skype Video Monitor on the tabletop so your local players can see your remote players.
(Optional): You can use WebcamMax to support some picture-in-picture effects over Skype, but I would leave this approach alone for now.
Note: The GM should not be using wireless to connect to the internet. This is a bandwidth heavy task and direct wired connections should always be used. Players might get away with wireless depending on their connection, but the GM can't.
Setup In Actual Use
If you have only one remote player, Skype video is free. As soon as you add a third to the conference, at least one person present must have a Skype video account. which costs one person $7 monthly. If you were used to free conferencing (like we were) this sucks -- but really -- it's not a big deal.
Your players see each other in Skype and talk to each other in Skype. The players will use the feed from Justin.TV to view the battlemat.
Ideally, players want to be using two monitors off of one machine on each player's end. Most desktop video cards support this, and there are a surprising number of extra LCD and CRT monitors floating around most gamers' homes. This sounds like a "Cadillac" setup but for most gamers with a job, it's comes at a "Pinto" price.
Playing the Game
As for playing? This is the best part. Just play the damn game like you would a normal session of D&D, Pathfinder or whatever. The only thing you need to remember is that it is hard to hear people if they are talking over one another. Players learn very quickly not to do this.
The Result
It doesn't feel "sort of" like face-to-face gaming or, "mostly" like face-to-face gaming. It feels EXACTLY like face-to-face gaming because that's exactly what it is. The only difference is that you can't see player's die rolls and you have to trust them. That's the only difference in the game. That's it; that's all.
Remote players will be heard over your speakers. Remote players will hear whatever the Blue Microphone pick up (and a Blue Mic will pick up almost everything). Your local players can be spread out all over the room using either Blue microphone in omni-directional mode -- and the mic will pick it up. If they are all at the table? Even better.
When you need to, you physically pull back the camera over the battlemat, or push it in when you want to give remote players a better view of the mat. That's why you pick up a cheap $20 boom stand off of eBay. Worth every penny. (Really, don't skip on the boom.)
I swear that I have NEVER had a better view of the Battlemat and the minis in play live in person as I do when zoomed in remotely using Justin.TV.
In fact, it is such a pain in the ass for me to travel to and from games with my local group on the other side of Toronto, I actually prefer Skype conferencing in to my local gaming group now. With my truly remote game (I am in Toronto, my Kingmaker game is hosted in the San Franciso Bay Area) it's still just like being there. Really. You TOTALLY get used to it. I love it. Our Kingmaker campaign has the GM and two players in SF. The other players are flung out all over the place in LA, Toronto, Atlanta and in Washington State.
Why We Switched Away from using a VTT
After 9 months of Skype plus cams, we tried d20Pro for our Carrion Crown campaign using Skype+ d20Pro. While there are some interesting features that d20Pro offers, in the end, we reverted back to just using Skype and multiple cameras. There are plusses and minuses to each, sure, but when it comes right down to it? Rolling bones and moving minis over Skype and Justin doesn't just "feel like real gaming" -- it IS real gaming.
Screw this VTT stuff. Give me bones and minis and a battlemat any day.
The Drawbacks of Skype+Justin.TV
The worst part is when some of us order pizza and the remote players aren't there to share. So we just usually all order pizza at the same time. Yes, really.
That's the biggest payoff you get from Skype plus Justin. The tech just goes away and you play the damn game.
I met one of the players in my Kingmaker campaign for the first time face-to face last week at Gencon. I wasn't meeting a stranger -- I was meeting a close gaming buddy who I see every week over the gaming table and have for over a year. Yes, really.
Skype + Justin.TV ROCKS.
What does a game look like using all of this?
I can't show you our Skype video conference, as we don't broadcast that part of our game. But you can otherwise see and hear how the game looks by checking out recordings of our various Pathfinder Campaigns here.
Attachments
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IronWolf
blank
This sounds like a very cool setup. Tried to xp you for the great write-up but apparently I need to spread it around more. Can someone cover me?
Ugh. I seriously hate the popularity of Skype. It's really not very good. It's doubly ungood when you consider that there are free Ventrilo/TeamSpeak servers all over the place and both programs (when using the right codec) are far superior.
To anyone using Skype, I implore you to give Vent/TS a try. If you don't convert to either after about a month of use, then I will eat your shorts.
To anyone using Skype, I implore you to give Vent/TS a try. If you don't convert to either after about a month of use, then I will eat your shorts.
IronWolf
blank
Sound quality wise I really don't see much difference for the most part. But I do dislike the system resource utilization of Skype and prefer Ventrilo. Unfortunately the others seem more comfortable with Skype for the most part. So I end up playing on either.
Steel_Wind
Legend
I want video+audio -- not audio only. Plus, Skype sound quality is far superior. We have not only tried Vent, in fact, we have our own private Vent server. We use it for WoW and for other things -- but we don't use it for remote tabletop gaming. We all far prefer Skype for that purpose.
Vent also has problems in allowing multiple people to talk at once at the same time, so there are real issues with that.
Seems to me you have probably not tried Skype in a while or just as likely that your upload/download stream is a little weak in your area. Skype is superior technology. It IS a resource hog -- but we have the computers to support it.
Psst: Do you want ketchup to go with my Stanfields? I'll wash them first
Then you're using the wrong codec. Skype sound quality is crap compared to a good Vent/TS codec.
Never had that problem and I've been in some very argumentative WoW guilds.
I use Skype as a replacement for a landline and for when I run out of mobile phone credit.
My broadband is fine. I get 19mbps down and 2mbps up (tested, not theoretical) which is way more than enough for Skype. But let's go with your theory that my line is cruddy. In that case, the fact that I get significantly better sound quality with Vent/TS, only supports my argument that they're better than Skype... even with a cruddy line!
IME Skype isn't just a RAM and CPU hog (which indicates piss-poor design), it's also a bandwidth hog (again, piss-poor design). Vent is a bit better than TeamSpeak but on the whole, mostly their quality relies on which codec you use. The default is GSM which is crap. Speex is a far better codec. Irrespective of that, however, their design, implementation, coding and actual real-world effectiveness are leagues ahead of where Skype will be in ten years.
I've tested all three extensively in MapTools games, WoW and keeping up with friends overseas for many years now and I stand-by my assertion that Skype is crap.
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A
amerigoV
Guest
I've only use Vent a bit during my WoW days. I did use it for online RPG mainly because people logged into a server instead of people having to initiate a call. I did not find Vent to be very good.
So, can you talk about about the codec? I found this . Is this run at the server end? I'll admit I know next to nothing (I am the "Choosing codecs is something that the average ventrilo user doesn’t really pay too much attention to" category here) but would be interested in how this helps.
QueensKnight
First Post
I've tried Maptool and Fantasy Grounds. I ended up sticking with Fantasy Grounds. I've been playing rpgs online since 2005, with almost all of them on Fantasy Grounds.
I've played in groups where we use the text chat feature in FG exclusively (no voice), where we use the text chat for "in character" speaking and use voice chat for rules questions and the like, and where we have used voice chat for almost all communicating.
For voice I've used TS, Vent, and Skype and all three worked fine.
FG has come a long way since I started using it. Its current version is quite robust. Check out the list of features for more info.
Fantasy Grounds :: The Virtual Tabletop for Pen & Paper Roleplaying Games
You can download the demo to check it out. You should check out your options and see what you like. In my experience, folks can focus on very different things which leads to some folks preferring one VTT over another. You need to find out what you focus on to see which fits you best.
I know it is hard to argue with free, but it's also hard to complain about paying for FG.
I've played in groups where we use the text chat feature in FG exclusively (no voice), where we use the text chat for "in character" speaking and use voice chat for rules questions and the like, and where we have used voice chat for almost all communicating.
For voice I've used TS, Vent, and Skype and all three worked fine.
FG has come a long way since I started using it. Its current version is quite robust. Check out the list of features for more info.
Fantasy Grounds :: The Virtual Tabletop for Pen & Paper Roleplaying Games
You can download the demo to check it out. You should check out your options and see what you like. In my experience, folks can focus on very different things which leads to some folks preferring one VTT over another. You need to find out what you focus on to see which fits you best.
I know it is hard to argue with free, but it's also hard to complain about paying for FG.
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