We are losing ambidexterity?

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What I'd like to see

The name of a feat is not evidence to make a ruling on.

Yup.

What's that feat that lets you deflect throwing axes again?

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

- It is explicitly and unconditionally stated that the TWF feat reduces attack penalties by 2. The text on using two crossbows (under equipment) contradicts this. Therefore, the general rules (p124-5) cannot consistently apply to ranged weapons and the only answer is that they do not apply to ranged weapons at all.

... except that the text under crossbows uses the Attacking With Two Weapons rules to figure out the penalties for making an extra ranged attack with your off-hand : -6/-10.

-Hyp.

 

[Destil]

Just a quick note

Point of refrence: I'm in no way making an interperation of the existing feats, here. This is just how I'd like to see things work in 3ER. Not a clairfacation or eratta, a flat-out change.

 

[Korin Tempest]

playing devils advocate here... if one were to use two weapon fighting for ranged thrown weapons, one could use improved and greater two weapon to get up to three extra attacks, starting at your base attack with the standard two weapon penalties.. compared to rapid shot, that's kind of unbalanced

 

[Destil]

playing devils advocate here... if one were to use two weapon fighting for ranged thrown weapons, one could use improved and greater two weapon to get up to three extra attacks, starting at your base attack with the standard two weapon penalties.. compared to rapid shot, that's kind of unbalanced

With the rather limited range (5 10' range increments), compaired with a bow, I don't think it would be a big deal at all, myself. You can hardly get out of charging range with thrown weapons.

 

[Ranger REG]

Re: Re: Re: What I'd like to see

Given the state of drawing a thrown weapon (move equivelent) vs. drawing ammunition (free) I think it makes perfect sense. Projectile weapons & ammo have their own rules, which do not really mesh well with thrown weapons. Like this either way you'll need two feats:

Thrown - Quickdraw (to draw and still full attack) & Two-Weapon

Projectile - Point Blank Shot & Rapid Shot.

Or you can take Quickdraw and Rapid Shot. One has to note the inferiority of thrown weapons having only 5 short range increments, as opposed to projectile weapons' 10 large range increments.

 

[Hypersmurf]

playing devils advocate here... if one were to use two weapon fighting for ranged thrown weapons, one could use improved and greater two weapon to get up to three extra attacks, starting at your base attack with the standard two weapon penalties.. compared to rapid shot, that's kind of unbalanced

No, there's a difference.

The Two-Weapon Fighting feat does not allow you to make any extra attacks. It simply reduces the penalties on something you can do anyway.

Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting actually allow extra attacks.

Since the feats don't apply to ranged weapons, you can't get the extra ranged attacks from ITWF and GTWF. Nor can you get the reduced penalties from TWF.

But you can get an extra attack for attacking with two weapons. That has nothing to do with feats or training.

-Hyp.

 

[Jens]

Originally posted by Hypersmurf

Originally posted by Jens
- It is explicitly and unconditionally stated that the TWF feat reduces attack penalties by 2. The text on using two crossbows (under equipment) contradicts this. Therefore, the general rules (p124-5) cannot consistently apply to ranged weapons and the only answer is that they do not apply to ranged weapons at all.

... except that the text under crossbows uses the Attacking With Two Weapons rules to figure out the penalties for making an extra ranged attack with your off-hand : -6/-10.

-Hyp.

Well yes, but that is not really relevant to my argument. The text under crossbows states "The TWF feat does not reduce reduce these penalties because it represents skill with melee weapons, not ranged weapons", contradicting the rules on fighting with two weapons. Either way, with the penalties involved it will rarely be advantageous to try to get an extra off-hand throw.