We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[Maxperson]

That’s because neither of those guys taught Luke how to use a sword.

True. They taught him how to use a lightsaber.

Or Rey’s ability with a staff translated to grasping the lightsaber more quickly. I suppose this would only work if you were willing to accept the idea that skill with one weapon might inform skill with another. But no, you seem to have dug your heels in that someone skilled with one weapon has as much chance of learning a second as a person unskilled with any weapons.

I could accept that idea if she were actually using staff forms to use her saber and progressing. She isn't, though. She is only using sword skill. You aren't going to learn how to use a sword just because you could use a staff.

Or any other rationalization you want to make. Ultimately though, I don’t think anything will counter your determination to not accept the new films, when really what’s happening is that your opinion of the Original Trilogy was formed by a younger, less critical and more open version of yourself, so its flaws don’t matter as much.

Nah. I re-watch them as an adult.

Your adult mind accepts your younger self’s appraisal of the earlier films, and actively works to support that opinion. The new films don’t have such a powerful hook, and so they don’t get a pass. They are subjected to the full criticism of your adult mind.

No. I examine the scenes fairly objectively. Luke doesn't get as much training as he should have to support his Return of the Jedi skill level, but he does get training where Rey does not. I'd be willing to grant her the same "pass" as Luke, except she doesn't get the same justifications as Luke. She gets......nothing.

 

[Kail11]

I still don't get the light speed scene....

 

[Morrus]

I didn't see her with Ob-Wan and Yoda.

Implied. Off-screen.

 

[hawkeyefan]

True. They taught him how to use a lightsaber.

No, they didn’t. Yoda certainly is not shown doing so. Obi-Wan’s scene is more about basic Force use than anything else.

They taught him how to use the Force. And if you wanted to say that Force use is what is needed to use a lightsaber....which is supported by the films...then I’d agree.

But you inserting training that we are bot shown and adamantly insisiting it must be the case proves nothing.

I could accept that idea if she were actually using staff forms to use her saber and progressing. She isn't, though. She is only using sword skill. You aren't going to learn how to use a sword just because you could use a staff.

Ugh “forms”. She’s usung magic powers to hone her skill. The same way as all Jedi that we know of. She’s letting go of her conscious self...she’s sensing how the Force flows through all things...her, the rock, her saber....

As for the staff and sword but, please just tell me if you think someone whose good at one may also be good at the other? It’s really simple. I had a buddy growing up who was great at lacrosse and hockey and golf but terrible at baseball.

Nah. I re-watch them as an adult.

I’m sure. When you do, maybe reexamine them and be as critical of them as you are of the new ones.

Tell me who was the genius that thought hiding Luke on the planet where his dad grew up with the only remaining family he had left was a good hiding place. Oh and let’s not bother changing his name, either. No one would ever think of looking for him there!!!

All this training that Luke gets is over the course of how long? Maybe a week? Probably less. How long is the gang in the Falcon fleeing Hoth before they get to Bespin?

So if that’s enough training for Luke, are we splitting hairs to say Rey’s not had enough training? I mean, I get that she’s had no formal training, but she’s also shown to have a much stronger connection to the Force, and she doesn’t really start using it until she’s exposed to it first hand.

No. I examine the scenes fairly objectively. Luke doesn't get as much training as he should have to support his Return of the Jedi skill level, but he does get training where Rey does not. I'd be willing to grant her the same "pass" as Luke, except she doesn't get the same justifications as Luke. She gets......nothing.

Except a connection to the Force that’s incredibly strong and exposure to advanced Force techniques. I think it’s also implied that the Force is working through her more than the other way around, but that’s not specifically stated, so I’m sure that can’t count qhere as non-specifically stated training scenes for Luke are just fine.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

This movie was a train wreck in every possible way. The only true saving grace was Luke casually dusting off his shoulder.

1. How did the expert hacker who was never on the rebel cruiser know the plan to use cloaked transports to escape (a plane our idiot XWing pilot didnt know until the very end) and also happen to know how to see through the cloaks?

2. When did the Resistance become a Leia dictatorship? Im sorry, leader or not you cannot demote someone in military rank just by saying so in any sort of real modern military unless that military is run by Hiter, Stalin, etc.

3. Why create a new big baddie like Snokes only to kill him like a punk? Sure it was clever but this guy was tough enough to consider only Luke to be a worthy foe.

4. An entire fleet of imperial ships have insufficient firepower to kill one cruiser that is close enough to be in visual range? That is illogical and impossible. It implies that their weapons lose power over range but your firing in a vacuum, where is all that energy going that is radiating away between firing the shot and it getting to the cruisers shields?

On the plus side I did enjoy the fact that anyone else that opposed the First Order basically told Leia and company to go blow by not bothering to show up. Reinforces that she had become an overbearing with with "her" resistance.

 

[Mallus]

1. How did the expert hacker who was never on the rebel cruiser know the plan to use cloaked transports to escape (a plane our idiot XWing pilot didnt know until the very end) and also happen to know how to see through the cloaks?

DJ overhears Finn talking with Poe via communicator, who explains the transport escape plan, just prior to their capture. As for how the FO figure out the cloaks, presumably the just *do*, once alerted to the plan. It's not the transport cloaks are presented as revolutionary new technology, more like a desperate trick. Note this is a sensor cloak only - the transports are visible to the naked eye - they could have used optical telescopes.

2. When did the Resistance become a Leia dictatorship? Im sorry, leader or not you cannot demote someone in military rank just by saying so in any sort of real modern military unless that military is run by Hiter, Stalin, etc.

Why do you assume the Resistance operates like a professional modern military? It might bear a passing resemblance to one, but it seems safer to say it's really driven by the legendary figure Princess/General Leia, hero of the Galactic Civil War. Also, note that Holdo commanded her ship in evening wear. The Resistance is prolly not all that hung up on protocol - except when you disobey direct orders.

3. Why create a new big baddie like Snokes only to kill him like a punk? Sure it was clever but this guy was tough enough to consider only Luke to be a worthy foe.

Because the real big baddie isn't Snoke. It's Kylo Ren (for now - I wouldn't bet against his redemption in Episode IX).

4. An entire fleet of imperial ships have insufficient firepower to kill one cruiser that is close enough to be in visual range? That is illogical and impossible.

Ever notice how space combat in the Star Wars universe all takes place within the frame? Within visual range. The smaller craft behave like WW2 planes and the bigger craft like ocean-going frigates in a pirate movie. These depictions are governed by visual -- cinematic -- logic, not physics.

Ever single space battle shown in the films is nonsensical from a physics perspective. Ever single one. Search your feelings; you know it to be true.

Reinforces that she had become an overbearing with with "her" resistance.

I think it reinforces the fact there need to be a plot in Ep 9. And rallying the allies who didn't show at the end of TLJ is going to be it.

 

[Kaodi]

One thing we have not really seen about Kylo Ren yet is why he wanted to be like his grandfather in the first place. We only saw his breaking point, when he thought Luke was trying to kill him. Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side in part because he lost one of the people he loved and was afraid of losing the other. But there has to be more to it than that. Snoke had to be tempting him with something more than naked power. And I wonder if how Snoke "got to him" will be a major reveal in the last film.

 

[Mallus]

It's simple. Rey went up a level. She picked up the Lightsaber Feat.

The way I figure it, the rule is a PC can choose to add their Force bonus, instead of their Lightsaber skill ranks, to their attack roll, if their Force bonus is higher.

You can see the exact point when Rey's player remembers this rule at the end The Force Awakens!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

DJ overhears Finn talking with Poe via communicator, who explains the transport escape plan, just prior to their capture. As for how the FO figure out the cloaks, presumably the just *do*, once alerted to the plan. It's not the transport cloaks are presented as revolutionary new technology, more like a desperate trick. Note this is a sensor cloak only - the transports are visible to the naked eye - they could have used optical telescopes.


Why do you assume the Resistance operates like a professional modern military? It might bear a passing resemblance to one, but it seems safer to say it's really driven by the legendary figure Princess/General Leia, hero of the Galactic Civil War. Also, note that Holdo commanded her ship in evening wear. The Resistance is prolly not all that hung up on protocol - except when you disobey direct orders.


Because the real big baddie isn't Snoke. It's Kylo Ren (for now - I wouldn't bet against his redemption in Episode IX).


Ever notice how space combat in the Star Wars universe all takes place within the frame? Within visual range. The smaller craft behave like WW2 planes and the bigger craft like ocean-going frigates in a pirate movie. These depictions are governed by visual -- cinematic -- logic, not physics.

Ever single space battle shown in the films is nonsensical from a physics perspective. Ever single one. Search your feelings; you know it to be true.


I think it reinforces the fact there need to be a plot in Ep 9. And rallying the allies who didn't show at the end of TLJ is going to be it.

I would have to rewatch the scene, which I have no interest in doing but Poe learned very last minute after being stunned about the cloak plan. At that point disabling the active sensor would be pointless and needlessly risky. It would also suggest that Poe is a complete and utter moron and the biggest asset for the FO in the whole movie. The Resistance had a plan and kept it secret from everyone. Poe is finally told this plan and he immediately tells someone that is sneaking onto an enemy warship and thus the most likely to be captured?

True, the Resistance could be Leia's personal fan club. But then why bother with ranks and organization if it does not mean anything.

Feels more like they decided that Snokes felt too much like the Emperor so they found a quick way to write him out.

Visual range exists to make things fit on a movie screen, they are poor explanation for how a single cruiser can survive the fire of multiple larger more powerful ships.

Very true on last point, there was very little in this movie that really fit as a nice well organized plot. The biggest feeling I got from the movie is that the average person could care less who is in charge, the Galactic level leadership does nothing to affect the life of every day citizens.


One other thought comes to mind. This whole movies was a huge win for the FO. The Resistance flees, has all their cap ships destroyed, escapes on shuttles, a large number of which are destroyed, then they hide in a base and what appears to be hundreds of soldiers are deployed in trenches, all of these soldiers are killed or captured and in the end Leia and a command staff small enough to fit on the Falcon is all that escapes.

So the FO wiped out what? 99.95% of the Resistance AND Luke Skywalker had to sacrifice his life so that few could escape.

 

[Hussar]

Stumbled across this. Thought I'd share:

Made me giggle.