We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[Mallus]

It would also suggest that Poe is a complete and utter moron and the biggest asset for the FO in the whole movie. The Resistance had a plan and kept it secret from everyone. Poe is finally told this plan and he immediately tells someone that is sneaking onto an enemy warship and thus the most likely to be captured?

Well, yes. That's the whole point. Poe's wrong. His half-baked plan goes sideways. In Poe's defense, his plan is probably no worse than the plan to rescue of Leia in Star Wars. But Poe's storyline in TLJ is how a hotshot pilot becomes a smarter leader, so things don't go as well for his merry band i.e. Finn & Rose. There are vital life lessons to be learned!

True, the Resistance could be Leia's personal fan club. But then why bother with ranks and organization if it does not mean anything.

It's not that 'ranks and organization' mean nothing. There's a huge excluded middle between 'anarchy' and 'legendary General Leia Organa can field-demote Poe'. But seriously, did you think The Last Jedi was suddenly going to become a military legal procedural, with appointed counsel, hearings, and a trial? Jedi Advocate General?? It's not that kind of show.

Feels more like they decided that Snokes felt too much like the Emperor so they found a quick way to write him out.

Could be? Regardless, I think it was a great decision.

Visual range exists to make things fit on a movie screen, they are poor explanation for how a single cruiser can survive the fire of multiple larger more powerful ships.

The Resistance ships are beyond the effective range of the First Order ship's weapons, and the FO can't close. Pretty sure this is explicitly stated. As the Resistance ships run out of fuel, they fall into effective range and get blown up.

The reason why the weapons effective ranges are so short, and not, say in the tens of thousands of kilometers, is so the ships all fit in the same shot - because this is a Star Wars movie!

TBH, I'm not exactly sure why Johnson went with the slow-speed space chase. All I can think of is it's an inversion of the middle of ESB; instead the Rebel fleet jumping away and the Millennium Falcon limping to Bespin at sublight, we have the opposite. The Resistance fleet crawls away from the FO pursuers while a brave subplot flits off to another location at hyper-speed. This is probably some sort of commentary on distance & time in the Star Wars movies.

The biggest feeling I got from the movie is that the average person could care less who is in charge, the Galactic level leadership does nothing to affect the life of every day citizens.

Honestly, I don't think we get good picture of life under Imperial occupation until Star Wars Rebels.

So the FO wiped out what? 99.95% of the Resistance AND Luke Skywalker had to sacrifice his life so that few could escape.

The FO lost their Supreme Leader, his immense flagship, and some (most?) of that fleet after Holdo's hyper-jump kamikaze. So... not bad? Especially when you consider the allies the Resistance called out to from Krait are still out there.

Which brings up my biggest issue with the next movie. I don't want it to be a movie. I want it to be a Bioware game. I want 40 to 50 hours (single play-through) of the PCs in the Falcon uniting factions in a reluctant galaxy to battle the First Order. Plus romances!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The FO lost their Supreme Leader, his immense flagship, and some (most?) of that fleet after Holdo's hyper-jump kamikaze. So... not bad? Especially when you consider the allies the Resistance called out to from Krait are still out there.

Which brings up my biggest issue with the next movie. I don't want it to be a movie. I want it to be a Bioware game. I want 40 to 50 hours (single play-through) of the PCs in the Falcon uniting factions in a reluctant galaxy to battle the First Order. Plus romances!

The lost the planet bombardment ship at the beginning of the movie which one would think is a huge loss but Leia still felt that the lost of the dozen or so bombers sent in to do the job was too high a cost. So that tells you she is either a fool or the scale of armaments between the FO and the Resistance is so unbalanced that 12 oversized fighters has more value to the Resistance that a Dreadnought has to the FO.

The kamikazee destroyed the flagship and several ships around it but there was enough left over to launch a planetary assault that included a planetary siege cannon.

So the FO had a portion of its fleet destroyed and its flagship but the Resistance was reduced to a dozen? two dozen? people who have to run off to the Outer Rim in hopes that the allies that ignored them before will help a group of people who themselves have no assets at all.

 

[Mallus]

So that tells you she is either a fool or the scale of armaments between the FO and the Resistance is so unbalanced that 12 oversized fighters has more value to the Resistance that a Dreadnought has to the FO.

If I'm remembering this right, by the time Poe clears the dreadnought's AA (AS?) cannons the last surface transports are away. So it's no longer necessary to bomb the dreadnaught as part of their retreat. So Leia opts not to commit more forces against what is now a target of opportunity. To save the bomber wing for some future strategic operation. Seems legit - for military thinking in a Star Wars movie, at least.

The kamikazee destroyed the flagship and several ships around it but there was enough left over to launch a planetary assault that included a planetary siege cannon.

Sounds about right.

So the FO had a portion of its fleet destroyed and its flagship but the Resistance was reduced to a dozen? two dozen?...

Yes, but their leadership is all jacked up. Snoke's dead, presumably leaving Red and Hux in charge. And they hate each other. That should count for something. Cue the internecine plotting and requisite Force-choking of lackeys and apparatchiks...

...people who have to run off to the Outer Rim in hopes that the allies that ignored them before will help a group of people who themselves have no assets at all.

No assets? They have General Leia Organa, dashing space pilot Poe, who just learned a valuable life lesson about leadership, Finn and Rose, who learned their own important lessons about a) when to fight and b) what to fight for, an adorable robot (or two or three), and Rey the last living Jedi Knight -- whose frighteningly strong in the Force. And they've got the now even-bigger myth of Luke Skywalker on their side. Perhaps literally, because the odds he pops up as a Force ghost capable of affecting the material world are pretty good.

They'll do fine. I mean, the film does tell us "(They) are the spark, that will light the fire that will burn the First Order down.”. Using those exact words.

Besides, it's not like things were looking good at the end of ESB...

 

[JacktheRabbit]

At the end of ESB they had an entire fleet secure in hiding. Now you have one barely trained Jedi, an old woman, a pilot without a ship, and a coward former Storm Trooper.

Yoda showed up once to affect the real wold to burn down a tree. Luke is not coming back. Luckily Leia is not either.

 

[hopeless]

All we need is for Leia to keep over when Luke turns up as a Force Ghost or been teleported by the Force Ghosts who had enough of him refusing to leave that world... without his clothes...

 

[Mallus]

At the end of ESB they had an entire fleet secure in hiding. Now you have one barely trained Jedi, an old woman, a pilot without a ship, and a coward former Storm Trooper.

Sure, they had a fleet hidden in extra-galatic space. And it looked great at the Battle of Endor. But what did it actually do?

All the heavy lifting was done by a barely-trained Jedi, a young woman, a smuggler/pilot who for some reason was leading the ground assault, a Bigfoot, a former smuggler/city administrator who was piloting the smuggler/pilot's ship, and a pair of robots.

The Rebel fleet gave an assist, as did a bunch of carnivorous Teddy Bears.

i.e. the keys to the Rebel victory in RotJ were people, exactly the same kind of people fleeing Krait in the Falcon at the end of TLJ. It's almost as if this were by design!

Also, Finn is no more of a coward than Han was.

What do you think the odds are that in Episode IX Poe won't get another ship, the Resistance won't rally up a new fleet, Finn and Rose won't do something rally heroic and important, and generally-speaking, good won't triumph over evil?

Don't tell me the odds. I'll tell you. They're zero!

Yoda showed up once to affect the real wold to burn down a tree. Luke is not coming back. Luckily Leia is not either.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the scene with Yoda & the tree was foreshadowing.

BTW, what do you have against Leia?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Sure, they had a fleet hidden in extra-galatic space. And it looked great at the Battle of Endor. But what did it actually do?

All the heavy lifting was done by a barely-trained Jedi, a young woman, a smuggler/pilot who for some reason was leading the ground assault, a Bigfoot, a former smuggler/city administrator who was piloting the smuggler/pilot's ship, and a pair of robots.

The Rebel fleet gave an assist, as did a bunch of carnivorous Teddy Bears.

i.e. the keys to the Rebel victory in RotJ were people, exactly the same kind of people fleeing Krait in the Falcon at the end of TLJ. It's almost as if this were by design!

Also, Finn is no more of a coward than Han was.

What do you think the odds are that in Episode IX Poe won't get another ship, the Resistance won't rally up a new fleet, Finn and Rose won't do something rally heroic and important, and generally-speaking, good won't triumph over evil?

Don't tell me the odds. I'll tell you. They're zero!


I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the scene with Yoda & the tree was foreshadowing.

BTW, what do you have against Leia?

You know, I don't go much in for speculation, but the scenes with the arms dealers makes me think that maybe, just maybe, we've seen the last of the X-wing as a staple of the good guys. 1) they were all blown up, 2) it's now known that the profiteers that support the 1O are also providing the Resistance, 3) Poe needs a new ship.

Of course, there's still [-]Chekov's[/-] Luke's X-wing, so maybe not.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Sure, they had a fleet hidden in extra-galatic space. And it looked great at the Battle of Endor. But what did it actually do?

All the heavy lifting was done by a barely-trained Jedi, a young woman, a smuggler/pilot who for some reason was leading the ground assault, a Bigfoot, a former smuggler/city administrator who was piloting the smuggler/pilot's ship, and a pair of robots.

The Rebel fleet gave an assist, as did a bunch of carnivorous Teddy Bears.

i.e. the keys to the Rebel victory in RotJ were people, exactly the same kind of people fleeing Krait in the Falcon at the end of TLJ. It's almost as if this were by design!

Also, Finn is no more of a coward than Han was.

What do you think the odds are that in Episode IX Poe won't get another ship, the Resistance won't rally up a new fleet, Finn and Rose won't do something rally heroic and important, and generally-speaking, good won't triumph over evil?

Don't tell me the odds. I'll tell you. They're zero!


I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the scene with Yoda & the tree was foreshadowing.

BTW, what do you have against Leia?

I'm not a Leia fan, she is arrogant and the actress is dead. They killed the good original cast so be done with her too.

Well the fleet and it's fighters you know kind if blew up the DS. I know it's a minor thing but Luke didn't and the ground forces didn't.

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[Ovinomancer]

I'm not a Leia fan, she is arrogant and the actress is dead. They killed the good original cast so be done with her too.

Well the fleet and it's fighters you know kind if blew up the DS. I know it's a minor thing but Luke didn't and the ground forces didn't.

Sent from my [device_name] using EN World mobile app

The fighters needed the ground forces to disable the shield so they could do their thing. The ground forces needed Luke to pull Vader away so they could do their thing.

Any one of those doesn't happen, no Death Star going boom. Your argument is akin to saying it's only the last soldier that shoots a bullet that wins the war.

 

[Mallus]

I'm not a Leia fan, she is arrogant and the actress is dead.

Harsh. In space, no one can hear your feel.

(whoops, wrong franchise)

They killed the good original cast so be done with her too.

It's a safe bet Leia will not be making a CGI'd appearance in Episode IX. Too soon, and too ghoulish.

Well the fleet and it's fighters you know kind if blew up the DS. I know it's a minor thing but Luke didn't and the ground forces didn't.

The *fleet* didn't do much at all, other than explode. Isn't it Lando and Nien Nub (did I get that right?) in the Falcon that shoot out the 2nd Death Star's reactor? With one or two surviving escort fighters.

And that feat was possible because of Han, Leia, Chewie, R2D2, and C3PO disabling the shield generator on the forrest moon, which in turn was made possible by Luke turning himself in to Vader.

The point is Star Wars takes a heroic view of history. The Rebel victory at Endor depended entirely on the actions of small number of individuals, just like the victory at Yavin. A small group of heroes, who, coincidentally enough, would all fit in comfortable in the Millennium Falcon, end up saving the day.

Fleet's come and go. Protagonists, on the other hand...

Contrast this with something like Nolan's Dunkirk movie last year. While Dunkirk does highlight the heroic actions of individuals, those actions take place within the context of a massive collective effort to evacuate the Allied forces.