We Should Be More Critical of Our Criticisms

[overgeeked]

We see this issue here, where people will loudly scoff at the notion that critics know anything, because the reader liked the book that got a one-star review, therefore the critic had nothing of value to contribute.

I have two bachelor's degrees and two master's degrees in literature and related subjects. In all that time, in all those classes, in all those book reviews, papers, essays, class conversations, etc I've yet to come across a single compelling reason why anyone should care at all what someone else thinks about a piece of art. If anything, it's only reinforced for me that opinions are like buttholes.

It's frustrating -- even professional critics I disagree with have typically seen hundreds more movies than I have, read hundreds more books and eaten thousands more meals in restaurants than I have, and almost certainly have some valuable expertise they're bringing to their critiques -- but under the current model of the internet, I'm not sure anything's going to change.

It's frustrating when people insist that simply engaging with something more than others somehow makes their opinions more relevant or valid. It's all personal taste. Being able to dress up that personal taste in an flowery essay doesn't somehow elevate the opinion to fact. It's just an older version of the internet plague of influencers. Writing it down rather than excitedly speaking into a camera doesn't change the core of it. Some rando has an opinion. As always, so what?

A couple of anecdotes from my pre-internet days.

As a kid reading the TV Guide and looking for stuff to watch I quickly learned that there were certain keywords and numerical values of ratings that would almost guarantee that I'd love a movie or TV show and certain other keywords and numerical values of ratings that would almost guarantee that I'd hate a movie or TV show. Trouble was the "good time" words were all negatives like goofy, schlock, low-budget, ham-fisted, etc and almost without fail the lower the star rating, the more I liked a given movie or TV show.

A very similar thing happened to me with the school librarian. She constantly pushed me away from the stuff I loved like comic books, graphic novels, sci-fi, horror, fantasy, hardboiled detective fiction, etc and tried to push me towards more "literary" or "classic" works. Having survived her attempts to assassinate my joy of reading, I've since aged quite a bit, earned a library science degree of my own, and I can now say...one professional to another...that she was an atrocious librarian.

It doesn't matter if someone else liked something, it only matters if I like it.

I agree with Ray on this one:

“I have never listened to anyone who criticized my taste in space travel, sideshows, or gorillas. When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave the room.” ―Ray Bradbury

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have two bachelor's degrees and two master's degrees in literature and related subjects. In all that time, in all those classes, in all those book reviews, papers, essays, class conversations, etc I've yet to come across a single compelling reason why anyone should care at all what someone else thinks about a piece of art. If anything, it's only reinforced for me that opinions are like buttholes.

Really?!

I find that other people's well-explained and thoughtful opinions on things, even if I totally disagree with them, can be absolutely fascinating and meaningful, and tell me about both the piece of art they're discussing and often themselves, sometimes about their entire culture and background. Why would you "not care" about that and thus presumably think it was worthless? That is itself a fascinatingly odd opinion to me! Maybe "care" means something different to you in this context?

It doesn't matter if someone else liked something, it only matters if I like it.

You've never been caused to like or at least completely re-evaluate something by reading someone else's enlightening opinion about it? Because I sure have. Both negatively and positively.

I feel like "tastes" aren't fixed or set in stone, or simple or without nuance, too.

 

[Reynard]

I have two bachelor's degrees and two master's degrees in literature and related subjects. In all that time, in all those classes, in all those book reviews, papers, essays, class conversations, etc I've yet to come across a single compelling reason why anyone should care at all what someone else thinks about a piece of art. If anything, it's only reinforced for me that opinions are like buttholes.

ETA: As noted down thread, I misunderstood overgeek's post.

What a strange response. I can't imagine actually engaging with analysis and, discussion and criticism for the amount of time it took to get that education and coming away with the idea that there is no value in such things.

And then to spend a lot of time on a message board doing exactly that.

Weird.

 

[MGibster]

This is a really good example of something I wish folks were more compelled to do. Admit something isn't of the best quality, understand that, and yet find joy in it anyways. There is a lot of "me liking something bad does not compute, therefore Surf II is a good movie!" analysis or justification/defensiveness folks have mentioned.

I like Taco Bell. Do they make the best tacos and burritos? No. Not even close. But if I need a quick bite to eat I'm more than happy to make a run for the border. Maybe get a Mexican Pizza if I'm feeling frisky. I also like Texas Roadhouse. For the price point, I think their steaks are pretty good. Is it a fine dining experience? No. But I generally walk about happy with the overall experience.
You're right, you can enjoy something even if it's not the best quality. You can enjoy a Dresden book even if it's not the Iliad.

 

[overgeeked]

Breaking my own rules, but here goes...

Really?!

I find that other people's well-explained and thoughtful opinions on things, even if I totally disagree with them, can be absolutely fascinating and meaningful, and tell me about both the piece of art they're discussing and often themselves, sometimes about their entire culture and background. Why would you "not care" about that and thus presumably think it was worthless? That is itself a fascinatingly odd opinion to me! Maybe "care" means something different to you in this context?

You've never been caused to like or at least completely re-evaluate something by reading someone else's enlightening opinion about it? Because I sure have. Both negatively and positively.

I feel like "tastes" aren't fixed or set in stone, or simple or without nuance, too.

What a strange response. I can't imagine actually engaging with analysis and, discussion and criticism for the amount of time it took to get that education and coming away with the idea that there is no value in such things.

And then to spend a lot of time on a message board doing exactly that.

Weird.

I'm responding negatively to the idea that critics know better than everyone else and should be listened to or deferred to. There's no value in that.

I'm not responding negatively to the notion of peers having a conversation or discussion about art. There is value in that.

 

[Reynard]

A few years ago, DC did a event comic series called Heroes in Crisis. It was focused around mental health, PTSD and related subjects for super heroes, and it seemed like it would be right up my alley. But in the process of telling the story, it did unspeakable things to Wally West, the Flash. I was so angry that I refused to ever read another DC comic.

Why was I so mad? On a most basic level, it felt deeply out of character for Wally, and so it was insulting from a writing level. But more, Wally West was MY Flash and also the character that brought me into reading comics. (Despite being a sci-fi, cartoon and D&D geek as a kid, I did not really read comics until when I was 14, the Flash TV show was on. I happened across Flash #50 at my local newstand -- remember those? -- and was hooked from there.) Because shortly thereafter Mark Waid took over and wrote it for 200 issues or so, and I followed it, I "grew up" with Wally. I got married and so did he. I had kids, and so did he. Wally did not just define my relationship with comic books and superheroes, those stories helped me find my own moral perspective.

So, when that story turned Wally into a murderer and destroyed his character, I took it personally. I don't think it would have been possible for me to judge the story on its own merits, or even see the positive elements within the event (talking about mental health).

Anyway, that's kind of what I mean about self reflection on how one feels about things -- seeking and articulating the why.

ASIDE: they did eventual retcon the event to "fix" Wally, and I read those issues, but I have never really forgiven DC.

 

[KYRON45]

....why didn't someone tell me that years ago?????

sobs

WHAT HAVE I DONE WITH MY LIFE?

All of those words.....just a waste.

 

[Bohandas]

I think the 280 character limit era of the internet has taught people to ditch nuance and often context. Folks are generally good about discussing their preferences and examining them here in my experience. Those who dont, seem to be coming in here from the wilds of the internet where its not a common exercise.

How did that limit even come about? Like, I heard somewhere that it somehow goes back to alphanumeric pager technology, which seems ridiculous to me. That's like having a limitation that's a holdover from carrier pigeons or the pony express

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I like Taco Bell. Do they make the best tacos and burritos? No. Not even close. But if I need a quick bite to eat I'm more than happy to make a run for the border. Maybe get a Mexican Pizza if I'm feeling frisky. I also like Texas Roadhouse. For the price point, I think their steaks are pretty good. Is it a fine dining experience? No. But I generally walk about happy with the overall experience.
You're right, you can enjoy something even if it's not the best quality. You can enjoy a Dresden book even if it's not the Iliad.

I have to say, I pray that US Taco Bell is better than UK Taco Bell (which appeared here relatively recently), because my god, I've never come across even fast food that so consistently tasted like and had the texture of plastic and/or cardboard! I wish I was kidding! I've had proper Mexican a lot in the US and loved it so I suspect it's like how US pizza chains are relatively better in the US than the UK in most cases, because they have to compete with local restaurants in the UK.

Talking more generally, McDonalds and stuff I get it - it's not amazing but it's totally solid and safe and there when you need it. Pizza chains I get it - they're okay, rarely even good. UK Taco Bell, you couldn't pay me to eat that! Genuinely I almost felt like I was being pranked first time I got it. I guess I won't be visiting the US any time soon because of "ice-y conditions" but next time I go there I have to try Taco Bell and see if it's the same way!

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

All of those words.....just a waste.

That's what you think. But just remember- our new AI overlords? What do you think that they are bring trained on?

That's right. Words.

And if I can't be king of y'all, then guess what? I'm going to make sure that I have SO MANY WORDS that all of the AI Overlords will, in effect, be achieving a full Snarf-consciousness when they inhale my verbiage.

Wait... did I just reveal my masterplan? How do I write that I have no internal monologue?