Weaknessess of Computer RPGs

[Uder]

If WOTC stepped up to the plate, provided an online chat platform tailored to running PnP DnD, IMHO, it would be just jammy.

Isn't this happening this weekend with UnCon?

http://wizo.wizards.com/uncon/pages/events.php

 

[Lazybones]

I think a lot of you commented upon the lack of flexibility and immersion of CRPGs have never played a DM-ed game of Neverwinter Nights. The persistent world scene is nothing in comparison with the scheduled DM-ed campaign, as played at Neverwinter Connections and among groups of friends who set up games on a LAN or via the Internet. With the DMFI wand package, a DM can do a heck of a lot in the game far beyond the default engine, and there are also dicebags and the such for adjudicating things outside of the game engine.

My two NWN campaigns have gone on weekly for several years (one all the way back to August 2002). We have character development, intraparty RP, and none of the NPCs are run by a script with canned responses (I possess them all as DM).

SteelWind hit on a lot of the plusses of Neverwinter Nights over tabletop D&D (and he would know, being the head of the foremost custom content project for NWN), but a few I'd like to note/emphasize:

• The ability to play with folks from all over the world, or even local friends with whom you cannot gather regularly due to schedule/time demands. I know many people just don't have the time for regular tabletop sessions. I was in one group recently that met a friend's house 40 mins away from me by car; the average session was 5 hours (I've rarely seen D&D sessions that go for less than 4 hours. My NWN sessions are 2 hours, and only rarely feel rushed. In part that's due to my next point:
• Automated combat. After playing NWN for a while, I could simply not stand your average tabletop combat encounter. In the last group I was in, even a minor skirmish could take an hour with minis, and big combats could drag out the entire 5 hour session. Perhaps it is my style of play, I prefer fast-paced combats and am not the sort who pores over a map trying for the optimal placement of my fireball. Your average NWN combat takes about 2 minutes, and oddly my groups do more tactical discussion and planning before battles and between planning, because they cannot "pause" the action in mid-melee. Thus you can get several exciting combats and a few roleplaying encounters into a single 2 hour session easily.
• Better roleplaying. This one may seem odd to many of you, but I've found it to be 100% true in my experience (having played in about 15 tabletop campaigns since I started with D&D in the 1980s). Folks cite the advantage of unlimited imagination and all that, but it takes a pretty darned solid imagination to pretend that the 250 pound 20-something guy with a moustache across the table in front of you is an elven sorceress. While voice is available for NWN (I've used Ventrilo in the past), I don't use it, as it allows the players to more effectively get immersed in their characters. It does take a little while for folks to get used to the odd conversational style of typed text (I type 65wpm, so I am often running 3-4 conversations at once, which can be jarring at first), but in my experience it allows players to venture more in getting into character. Some groups don't have this problem, and can sink into character at the gaming table despite the impediments (e.g. talking "in voice" rather than in the third person or detached first person, as in "I tell the merchant that I'm not going to accept his offer."). But of all the groups I've participated in, I've never encountered a group that has done that fully; many "roleplayers" feel self-conscious and thus keep the safe distance of describing their character's actions and words rather than saying them. YMMV, of course; I'm only generalizing from my experience. In my NWN games, we only rarely go OOC (out of character), and that's usually to attempt an out-of-engine event (like trying to climb a cliff, in which case the player sends a STR check, using the dicebag widget, to the DM).
• Visuals, music, spell effects, and the other eye and ear candy elements that others have noted. I build all my own mods, and have gotten pretty good at implementing the fabulous custom content that others have created for the game.

None of the above is meant to diminsh the appeal of tabletop gaming; I think D&D is great in any format and roleplaying is fun wherever you do it. But I saw a lot of misconceptions in the above posts, and a lot of belittling of people who just "sit in front of their computer and don't have friends" (I got a similar impression from the recent Dungeon magazine ad that likewise attacked CRPGers). I think many of you are referencing single player CRPGs or MMORPGs, which in my view don't really qualify as "roleplaying" games at all (at least not as far as I have seen). I haven't played World of Warcraft or Everquest, but a lot of my players have, and from what they've told me actual roleplaying is almost unheard of in those games.

Needless to say, I'm looking forward to NWN2.

 

[tetsujin28]

What aspects of D&D can't be (or aren't) in computer-based RPGs???

Beer, burping, pizza.

In what areas do computer-based RPGs beat D&D???

Handling time.

 

[tetsujin28]

I don't care how cool your diorama is, it's not really going to hold a candle to the best in computer graphics.

I'm the other way 'round. Computer graphics don't impress me. A scratch-built castle, complete with murder holes? Impressive.

 

[Orius]

What aspects of D&D can't be (or aren't) in computer-based RPGs???

CRPGs are confined within the limits of their programming — they can't be expanded upon as freely as a traditional pnp RPG.

In what areas do computer-based RPGs beat D&D???

Number crunching.

 

[Orius]

NWN, while not as strong in its officical campaigns, offered endless replayability with community modules and the DM client - while no panacea, offered a real chance to those with the technical skille to run real RPGs online, albeit with an action emphasis.

NWN is still fairly limited when compared to D&D. And while some people have learned how to get good use out of the DM client, it is very difficult to run it right out of the box without any prior knowledge of how it works. Still, it does a pretty good job of filling in when a D&D game isn't available.

 

[tetsujin28]

I continue to be unimpressed by what seems to be what most people are impressed by, viz. computer graphics.

 

[Orius]

I continue to be unimpressed by what seems to be what most people are impressed by, viz. computer graphics.

Oh I agree somewhat. Regardless of whether of not a game is an RPG, gameplay is always more important to me that graphics. Good graphics can certainly enhance a game, while lousy graphics make a game worse, but in the end if the game itself sucks, it doesn't matter how pretty or advanced the graphics are.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Well, for me, the reason that Computer RPGs will never eclipse traditional RPGs is there is nothing like having friends coming together. Seriously, even video conferencing is no comparison to having a bunch of your closest buddies sitting around a table.

Amen.

 

[Crothian]

[Folks cite the advantage of unlimited imagination and all that, but it takes a pretty darned solid imagination to pretend that the 250 pound 20-something guy with a moustache across the table in front of you is an elven sorceress.

no it doesn't.