Weapon Focus "unarmed strike" counts when making a grapple check?

[Zephiel7]

What the title asks. Any replies would greatly be appreciated! Thanks.

 

[Meloncov]

As Weapon Focus gives a bonus to attack rolls and a grapple check is not an attack roll, I'd say no.

 

[Zephiel7]

Initiating a grapple is a type of "attack," and you are doing it unarmed. If a potential grappler has focused his talents in being able to "make contact" with his opponent with an "unarmed attack" - which a grapple COULD be thought of as - then it stands to reason that his grappling skills could also improve...

Tough call IMO.

 

[Nifft]

Nah, this one's easy -- just read the feat in question. It's a dead giveaway.

Weapon Focus [General]

Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat. [...]

Cheers, -- N

 

[BASHMAN]

It applies to the touch attack roll necessary to initiate a grapple. Essentially, this feat would matter if you rolled really bad, or if you were trying to grapple another monk [which have very high touch ACs]

 

[Flynn]

I agree with the consensus. The feat says "You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon." The first stage of a grapple is an attack roll. This is where the feat gives you the bonus. A grapple check is not an attack roll. To allow the feat to give you a bonus in the attack roll AND in the grapple check is to allow it to do double duty. That isn't how the feat was intended to work, so I would not allow the Weapon Focus feat to add to the grapple check. Why else would there be an Improved Grapple feat? Improved Grapple is where the grapple check bonus comes into play, and that's how a grappler improved his or her grapple check.

At least, that's my opinion. YMMV.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Hypersmurf]

I agree with the consensus. The feat says "You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon." The first stage of a grapple is an attack roll. This is where the feat gives you the bonus.

Right, but it's Weapon Focus (Grapple) that gives you +1 on your attack roll to initiate a grapple, not Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike).

-Hyp.

 

[Flynn]

Right, but it's Weapon Focus (Grapple) that gives you +1 on your attack roll to initiate a grapple, not Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike).

Good catch, good catch. Excellent point, Hypersmurf. You are absolutely correct. I should have looked at the title of the thread more closely before responding.

Thanks,
Flynn

 

[Zephiel7]

Excellent. I suppose that settles it.

One question though: What is the point of building a grappler? You can't initiate a grapple against roughly one third - one half of the creatures in the monster manual (due to size constraints). Anyone on this? Thanks.

 

[Vegepygmy]

One question though: What is the point of building a grappler? You can't initiate a grapple against roughly one third - one half of the creatures in the monster manual (due to size constraints).

The rules allow you to make all kinds of suboptimal choices. You can be a shuriken specialist if you want, for example. You'd probably be better off as a longbow specialist, but the choice is there for you to make.