Weapon Illustrations in RPG Books

[Tetsubo]

Actually, I believe that isn't necessarily too far off. I believe the Lucern Hammer had a similar design (except with 4 heads instead of one). The purpose of the "hammer" was to penetrate armor (slightly different from the punching through the spike was for) and that design is better for it than a completely flat head would.

It's not too far off from this

Correct. Actual, real; world warhammers had smallish heads meant to pierce armour. Or at least dent it in so it caused a sustained wound...

 

[Tetsubo]

It constantly amazes me how people put down a decision they don't like (or - not nessesarily in your case but I have seen it several times - can't understand) to incompetance, stupidity or laziness instead of the idea that the artist is making a consistant and conscious design choice. If WoTC artists are like every other artist I've ever known, they have dozens of reference books on how pretty much everything looks - including anatomy and weapons and such.

Here's the secret to art, in a nutshell: 'Cool' surpasses 'Reality'. Once you have the rules down pat, then you also know how to break them in effective ways for effect or to convey a particular message. 'Style' surpasses a text-book correct engineering illustration, because the style says things about the subject.

Yes, you could make technically correct weapons and armor illustrations. And all characters would wind up looking almost alike; more like soldiers than heroic fantasy characters. This is the death of any sort of illustration, especially one meant to make you go 'ooooooh, I want my PC to look that cool'. Unless you're illustrating a Sears catalog or an engineering textbook, making something technically correct is generally not the way to go.

For instance in the first Pathfinder cover illo, the goblins have these wicked serrated blades called dog-slicers. Yeah, it's simpler to make a blade that is a narrow triangle; they'd probably be more effective as well. it's techically correct. It's also boring as hell and says nothing about the goblins. Ok, did you get that? The blade design isn't meant to say a damn thing about the blade, but it says volumes about the creatures who made them.

That is art. This notion also applies to films, books, etc.

Weapon illustrations can be "themed" without being absurd. I know, I've done dozens of such sketches myself. I KNOW it's possible.

As for the "cool" over "realistic". A beautiful design is going to be cool no matter what. If it's a real world weapon or a fantasy weapon, that still holds true. I'm a big believer in the "form follows function" school of thought. Think of what the weapon is suppose to do, run that through your head for as long as it takes and then create it. It can take me days to work on a simple sketch in my head. I want to know that it has at least a chance of being usable.

The weapon illustration in most RPGs don't seem to take that stance. I've spent more time designing a single sketch then some game illustrators spent on all the designs in an entire book. I've bought RPG books just because they had good illustrations...

I am not an artist by any measure. But I have standards. I just would like game illustrators to acquire some as well...

And the Diagram book -Weapons- really is excellent.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Actually, no, not really. Look at the double scimitar's handle. If you grip it with both hands, the hands will be bundled together in the middle of the weapon (the handle is exactly the same length of two scimitar handles fused at the hilt). The handle should be at least three times as long.

hay good call. What I really liked about that picture was the shape of the blades and its depth compared to the one the elf wielded. But I think you might be right.

 

[Finster]

My problem with this appraoch to art direction (it's not the illustrator who makes these decisions) is that we don't get an idea of what the basic version looks like.

I would prefer a very basic illustration of a weapon or piece of armor in the equipment section of the book. Then in the knock-em-dead super cool action illustrations use the artistic license.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Spiked Armour does has historical reference, so it's really not as far out there as it seems (please see: Lambton Worm (sp?))

How does a folktale constitute historical reference?

 

[Rothe]

...
Here's the secret to art, in a nutshell: 'Cool' surpasses 'Reality'. Once you have the rules down pat, then you also know how to break them in effective ways for effect or to convey a particular message. 'Style' surpasses a text-book correct engineering illustration, because the style says things about the subject. ...

I agree, the secret is if it is "cool;" but what is "cool" to one is simply "goofy" and "juvenile" to another. To me if it get's too unrealistic it gets "goofy" and destroys my suspension of disbelief and then fun. I have a hard time viewing someone as an inspiring bad-ass adventurer that, to me, just looks "goofy."

This argument could also be applied to the illustrations of women in fantasy art. To many men, the scantily clad women in fantasy art, especially warriors, may be "cool" to others not.

In addition it depends on how many "clearly" unrealistic things we have in one image, how many percieved incongruities. People will generally accept 2 or 3, add too many and disbeleif is broken.

The thing with tying ones illustrations in the realistic is you minimize the incongruities. The incongruities you do have can then make for a stronger message. In addition, you can get your message across. If things come off as "goofy" to someone, that person probably won't get your message.

I think it is possible to get both cool and realistic enough (for me ). I'm not saying it is easy, probably not attainable by all artists. Frazetta Conan illustrations do it fairly well for me on the cool+realistic front. The detail of the frost giant on the right turning green in the "Frost Giant's Daughter" illustration is an excellent realistic detail for someone who just had their jugular cut (and the tiny drop of blood on the snow adds to it). To me (which I can't repeat enough this being art) Frazette's Conan illustrations bespeak bad-ass, are inspiring and have realistic enough weapons.

 

[Rothe]

Although I agree that spike armor is not far-fetched for a fantasy setting where things might grab or try to swallow you. I often have issue with spike placement. I like the stuff that looks like you could still fight without unduly being encumbered or slowed down, and still hurt that giant snake that tries to grab you. The spikes can be fairly short and accomplish this task.

I have no idea if the advantages and disadvantages are well reflected in the rules.

Tell me how, if I am wearing armor, I can hurt myself with the spikes?

Oh yeah. That armor isn't going to stop a spike where all the force is concentrated in one point. But if well placed with this in mind, it is unlikely to happen where you fall on a spike.

Tell me, if I am wearing armor, channeling hits INTO my armor is such a horrible thing?

Yes. All the force of the blow will go straight into the armor. The channeling effect makes it worse. Look at historical armor. It is rounded for a reason, and it ain't style. Especially look at helmet design, you will often see reinforcement on the portions that won't defelct a blow well.

Tell me, if the blow from a hammer is so powerful and it happens to hit one of the spikes at the exact right angle, and drive it out of the armor back into my body, I wasn't going to be seriously hurt by the blow anyway?

There is seriously hurt, and more hurt than you would of been without the spike. Although the odds of such a blow are low.

What is more likely to happen is if the spike is on your arm say, it will knock you off balance and open you to an easier follow on attack. Thus, lowering your AC. You can see something close to this manuever if you have a local SCA group that demonstrates. One tactic is catch or hook the other guys shield and bring him off balance. Then a killing blow is very easy.

In addition, the armor where the spike is is going to be weaker from the "weld" that holds the spike there. So it could I guess jab through being much worse that the dent the weapon woudl have to make to hurt you. Most likely is the spike should be designed to snap off from such a blow since it is not the kind of blow someone grabbing you would make.

I have carefully considered this, and the usual comments people have brought up against spiked armor fall flat.

I think you should reconsider. Human history is one of warfare and bloodshed, most of it with hand-to-hand weapons. If spiked armor and spiked chains had real advantages over rounded armor, swords, axes, etc. people would have adopted them over the millenia as their primary weapon. People adopted what worked best over millenia of testing. Spiked armor may exist in a story, but it is mentioned because it was so odd. Likewise exotic weapons were exotic for good reason, a good sword was much faster, more lethal, and better at defense. Many of those exotic weapons were ritualistic or assassination weapons and not designd to attack someone defending themselves or wearing armor.

In the end, I just can't believe after millenia that a game designer or artist hit on something in the armor and melee weapon fields that people's whose lives depended on it missed.

 

[Faraer]

Stylization is good, but the more you do it, the more aesthetically specific you get and the narrower in appeal. Most of Wizards' would-be 'cool' imagery and kinaesthetics just looks flashy and superficial to me. For instance, costumes like this that look concept-designed to within an inch of their life aren't likely in D&D worlds I want to play in.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Actually, I believe that isn't necessarily too far off. I believe the Lucern Hammer had a similar design (except with 4 heads instead of one). The purpose of the "hammer" was to penetrate armor (slightly different from the punching through the spike was for) and that design is better for it than a completely flat head would.

Er, a gnome hooked hammer is a double weapon. A pick on one end, a hammer on the other. Just like a double sword. Perhaps not realistic, but that's what the weapon is in D&D.

Clearly it's not what's pictured as the relic.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
Nah- you really can't spike the front of the armor- for most weapons or a shield, your arms will be swinging across your torso.

The back is fine, though.

frankthedm
Do remember the magical capes and backpacks in D&D.

I'm thinking more in terms of having said armor in a useful, non-dangerous-to-self sense, not in the "Hey, your armor tore a hole in your Cloak of Arachnida!" sense.

And, BTW, I second weapons books from the Diagram Group. I have their Encyclopedia of Weapons- it totally rules.