Weapon Initiative

[Sado]

I got an interesting idea from WEG's Hercules and Xena RPG. Weapons with initiative modifiers. Bigger, heavier weapons lower your initiative, since they would be slower to wield. It wouldn't really be any more bookkeeping, just add a modifier to initiative. I know weight can affect bonus to AC, but I don't think I don't believe the rules currently incorporate any mechanic to simulate this. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[Parlan]

In threads like this that have come up before, the two main probs that come up are effective fighting distance and the complexity such rules add.

People often argue that adding initiative mods is more "realistic". Eg., in a fight between an greatsword armed fighter and one with a dagger, the dagger is lighter so he should go first. However, this ignores the fact that the greatsword fighter can hit his opponent before the dude with the dagger can hit him. Since this advantage of the greatsword is being overlooked, the rules change does not add more "realism"

The issue of excessive complexity arise when a combatant starts with a greatsword and then switchs to a dagger.Does his initiatie count change? Couldn't this turn into a tactic to get the jump on npc's for example? Does the DM really want to deal with this?

Personally, I think such a system could be useful in swashbuckling games, where you might want to provide ven more incentive for people to use "quick" weapons. Otherwise I don't think this house-rule's benefits are worth the aggravation that introducing it is going to cause.

 

[Sado]

In threads like this that have come up before, the two main probs that come up are effective fighting distance and the complexity such rules add.

People often argue that adding initiative mods is more "realistic". Eg., in a fight between an greatsword armed fighter and one with a dagger, the dagger is lighter so he should go first. However, this ignores the fact that the greatsword fighter can hit his opponent before the dude with the dagger can hit him. Since this advantage of the greatsword is being overlooked, the rules change does not add more "realism"

Well, neither has greater than a 5-ft reach according to the rules. If the dagger guy had higher initiative than Sir Greatsword he would get to attack first. Just as unrealistic.

The issue of excessive complexity arise when a combatant starts with a greatsword and then switchs to a dagger.Does his initiatie count change? Couldn't this turn into a tactic to get the jump on npc's for example? Does the DM really want to deal with this?

Why not? Changing weapons can change BAB, range, damage, why not initiative? Take the guy's current initiative count and modify it according to the new weapon.

 

[Sammael]

How would you handle quick draw?

BAB 16 Fighter enters combat with a dagger and should act on initiative result 17. (16+1 for dagger). On his action, he attacks once with a dagger, and then quick-draws a greatsword for his remaining attacks. Does his initiative drop to 15? If it does, then there is a huge problem.

 

[Sado]

How would you handle quick draw?

BAB 16 Fighter enters combat with a dagger and should act on initiative result 17. (16+1 for dagger). On his action, he attacks once with a dagger, and then quick-draws a greatsword for his remaining attacks. Does his initiative drop to 15? If it does, then there is a huge problem.

I guess it would, on the next round. He would not attack 2 counts later (on 15 of that round), or on 17 of the next round, but would attack on 15 of the next round. Does that worK (not entirely sure, been up all night working)?

 

[Sammael]

The problem is, what if there isn't a next round (i.e. all the opponents are defeated before next round)? In that case, he wasn't penalized - at all.

 

[Sado]

The problem is, what if there isn't a next round (i.e. all the opponents are defeated before next round)? In that case, he wasn't penalized - at all.

No, but he doesn't get to do anything with the greatsword either, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Legildur]

I remember a relatively early Dragon magazine (pre 100 anyway) that contained an article outlining something very similar, except that it also helped determined number of attacks per round.

A longspear basically guaranteed that your attack went first as opponents closed, but then the dagger wielder would likely get more than one attack in subsequent rounds.

 

[Sammael]

No, but he doesn't get to do anything with the greatsword either, so it doesn't really matter.

Sure it does. He used the greatsword for his secondary attacks in the previous round. That's the whole point of quick draw.

 

[Thanee]

In another game they use weapon modifiers of a similar sort, but they are derived from various sources. Weapon speed and weapon reach. A longspear has a high modifier, as does a rapier, while a greataxe or greatsword has a low modifier, since you need to make wide swings, which leave your defenses open. A greatsword is not used like a longsword, it's probably rather bad for parrying, I could imagine, tho I do not have many practical experiences in this field.

The biggest problem here is, that you would need to determine initiative every round, since you can swap weapons and you have to figure in every action type, spellcasting, movement, etc in a similar way.

Bye
Thanee