Weapon made of primative materials (long)

[Aaron2]

I don't like the rules in A&EG for bronze and stone weapons. It's silly that a bronze sword is less effective than a club. So, based on my extensive knowledge of history [this is your cue to laugh] I wrote my own. This is phase one of my bigger list of more general weapon templates. Let me know what you think .......

These rules use several new weapon categories. Mass weapons are all weapons that rely on a heavy impact head, whether edged, like an axe, or not, like a hammer or mace. Bladed weapon include all sword-like weapons such as longswords, shortswords, falchions, or scimitar. Piercing weapons are all spears-like weapons, picks and daggers but does not include longer stabbing swords such as shortswords or rapiers. Finally, polearms are all two handed hafted weapons. When applying the weapon templates, choose the one that best fits the weapon.

Wood
Throughout the years, men have used wooden version of weapons as training tools. The Romans called them “rudis,” the Japanese called them “bokken,” while in English they are known as “wasters.” A waster is a wooden weapon designed to look and feel like the real thing. While most wooden weapons are for training only, wooden spears and arrows have fire hardened points.

Bladed,Mass Weapons and Polearms:
Cost: 1/10 normal cost
Damage: Die one size smaller
Critical: 20/x2
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Normally same, 1/2 (minimum as club) for mass weapons
Type: Bludgeoning
Hardness: 5
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2,5,10

Piercing Weapons:
Cost: 1/4 normal cost
Damage: Die one size smaller
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 5
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2,5,10


Bone
Bone weapons are similar to wooden ones but generally weaker. However, bone makes sharp points so can be used for spears. Typically, bone weapons are wielded by underground dwellers where wood is uncommon.

Bladed, Mass Weapons and Polearms
Cost: 1/2 normal cost
Damage: Die one size smaller
Critical: 20/x2
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Normally same, 1/2 (minimum as club) for mass weapons
Type: Bludgeoning
Hardness: 3
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2,5,10

Piercing Weapons:
Cost: 1/2 normal cost
Damage: Same
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 5
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2,5,10
Special: A bone spear point is fragile. A natural roll on 2 or less indicates that the point has shattered and is now useless. THe spear may now be used as an equivalently sized staff. Against opponents wearing medium or heavy armor, the break chance increases to a roll of 4 or less.

Special: Arrowheads
Bone can be used to make arrows, bolts or javelins that perform just as well as normal steel weapon. However, a bone arrows or bolts are always destroyed upon firing unlike their steel counterparts which only have a 50% chance to be destroyed. A bone javelin that hits its target is destroyed; one that misses has a 50% chance to be destroyed or not.
Bone arrows, bolts and javelins cost one half the cost of their steel counterpart.


Stone
Stone is a decent replacement for metal only for heavy mass weapons such as maces, hammers, and axes

Mass weapons:
Cost: 1/2 normal cost
Damage: Same
Critical: 20/x2
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Bludgeoning
Hardness: 5
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2,5,10

Flint
Flint can be used for slashing weapons and spearpoints. Flint sword-like weapons consist of either many flint edges held together between two wooden planks or one massive flint stone edge. While sharp, they are extremely fragile.

Bladed Weapons and Polearms:
Cost: 3/4 normal cost
Damage: Die one size smaller
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 8
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 1,2,5
Special: A flint edge is easily chipped. A natural roll on 1 indicates that the weapon has lost its edge. The weapon now has a 20/x2 critical multiplier.

Piercing Weapons:
Cost: 3/4 normal cost
Damage: Same
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 5
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2,5,10
Special: A flint spear point is fragile. A natural roll on 1 indicates that the point has shattered and is now useless. The spear may now be used as an equivalently sized staff.

Special: Arrowheads
Flint can be used to make arrows, bolts or javelins that perform just as well as normal steel weapons. However, a flint arrows or bolt that hits its target is destroyed; one that misses has a 75% chance to be destroyed or not. A flint javelin, regardless of whether it hits, has a 25% chance to be destroyed or not.
Flint arrows, bolts and javelins cost 3/4ths the cost of their steel counterpart.

Bronze
Bronze is a soft metal that is also expensive due to the rarity of one of its main components: tin. However, it doesn’t require any advanced metal technology and was, thus, very common throughout ancient times. Bronze spear point and arrowheads are as good as their iron counterparts and were used long after bronze swords and knifes were relegated to history. Bronze bladed weapons tended to be thick and weighted more towards the point than the hilt.

Piercing, Mass Weapons, and Polearms:
Cost: +1/10 normal cost
Damage: Same
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 5
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2, 5, 10

Bladed Weapons:
Cost: +1/10 normal cost
Damage: Same
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 9
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2, 5, 10
Special: A bronze blade is fragile. A natural roll on 1 indicates that the blade has broken and is now useless.


Iron
Those cultures without steel forging technology still used iron for weapons and armor. This metal is almost as good as bronze but is significantly cheaper. Iron is soft and will bend before breaking. Most mass weapons were still made of iron even after steel swords became available.

Piercing, Mass Weapons and Polearms:
Cost: Normal cost
Damage: Same
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 5 if wood-hafted, 10 otherwise
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2, 5, 10 if wood-hafted, 10, 10, 20 otherwise

Bladed weapons:
Cost: 8/10 normal cost
Damage: Same
Critical: Same
Range Increment: Same
Weight: Same
Type: Same
Hardness: 10
Hit Points (small, medium-sized, large): 2, 5, 10
Special: An iron blade is weak. A natural roll on 1 indicates that the blade has bent and is useless. A full-round action can straighten the weapon out again, but it now has a 20/x2 critical multiplier until it can be properly repaired.

Special: Arrowheads
Iron arrows, bolts or javelins perform just as well as their normal steel counterparts. However, an iron arrows or bolt that hits its target is destroyed; one that misses has a 75% chance to be destroyed or not. An iron javelin, regardless of whether it hits, has a 25% chance to be destroyed or not. Sometimes iron javelins were made specifically to bend and be destroyed on impact. This prevented the enemy from throwing the weapon back.


Aaron

 

[Spatzimaus]

Not bad, although IMO it's much easier to just go with an "exotic material" system that covers both ends of the spectrum. There are a few in some of the third-party books, and then there are all the homemade ones posted on this board in the past.

It's a bit confusing to have that Slashing vs. Piercing discrepancy once you get past the basic weapons. If I want to make a Halberd, which set of rules do I use? If a bone spear has a tendency to break, why wouldn't I just make a Glaive instead?

 

[Aaron2]

Not bad, although IMO it's much easier to just go with an "exotic material" system that covers both ends of the spectrum. There are a few in some of the third-party books, and then there are all the homemade ones posted on this board in the past.

I haven't found any outside of AE&G. Any recomendation? I did this because a general rule might not work well with all weapon. For example, bronze maces were used well into the high middle ages, so their should be no penalty for using one.

It's a bit confusing to have that Slashing vs. Piercing discrepancy once you get past the basic weapons. If I want to make a Halberd, which set of rules do I use? If a bone spear has a tendency to break, why wouldn't I just make a Glaive instead?

A bone glaive would do 1d8 *2 whereas a bone spear keeps its full damage and crit. And, yes, I really didn't think too hard about some of the polearms. My personal weapon table lists what templates a weapon is allowed, such as Bone, Military Issue, or Ceremonial etc. I tried to split the weapon material tables out and didn't take that into consideration.


Aaron

 

[Ferret]

No copper? Or brass? I don't know but wasn't Copper used way back? Naff but they didn't have much else.

 

[ciaran00]

thank you! Just what I needed for my Dark Sun campaign...

ciaran

 

[CCamfield]

No copper? Or brass? I don't know but wasn't Copper used way back? Naff but they didn't have much else.

Copper was only used until people figured out how to combine it with other things to make it harder. Bronze is copper & tin. I think brass is copper & zinc?

I have some problems with the system outlined, like bone piercing weapons having no weaknesses other than being breakable. Why not a -1 to hit to reflect a lower ability to penetrate? Still, it definitely looks good.

 

[Aaron2]

Copper was only used until people figured out how to combine it with other things to make it harder. Bronze is copper & tin. I think brass is copper & zinc?

The only copper weapon I'm aware of is an egyptian axe. Well, it looks more like a splitting wedge than an axe. I have another set of templates for weapon made out of precious metals I'm working on.

I have some problems with the system outlined, like bone piercing weapons having no weaknesses other than being breakable. Why not a -1 to hit to reflect a lower ability to penetrate?

I decided to stay away from to hit penalties and stick to adjusting just what was in the weapon tables. Being the DM, I also wanted to make it so there are some effective primative weapons to be wielded by all those trolls, trogs, and lizardmen. If you want to add a to hit penalty, I would suggest only having it apply to armored opponents, say -1 vs Medium, -2 vs Heavy.


Aaron

 

[Spatzimaus]

I haven't found any outside of AE&G. Any recomendation?

Well, I'm not unbiased, as I've posted an exotic materials system on these boards before. We had a big discussion on this topic a few months ago. The system I use was something we whipped up before the A&EG came out, and we decided to keep it instead of switching over. A lot of the numbers I used were based on the old AD&D exotic metal system, from an old issue of Dragon I believe.

I did this because a general rule might not work well with all weapon. For example, bronze maces were used well into the high middle ages, so their should be no penalty for using one.

It depends what the penalty is. Instead of attack and damage penalties, you could always play around with its crit numbers. A mace has a 20/x2 crit, so penalizing either threat range or multiplier doesn't hurt maces at all. Penalizing just threat range favors axes and picks over swords (a good option for iron/crude steel, for example).
So, you could say bronze was "-1 to crit multiplier, -1 to threat range", and it'd make bronze an inferior material overall, but only in regards to critical hits. Base damage would be unaffected, and weapons that already had a 20/x2 crit (which is mostly blunt ones) wouldn't change at all.
Or better yet, make it something like "-4 to threat confirmation rolls", which affects every weapon but hurts those that rely on crits more. This is closer to what I did IMC; quite a few materials have bonuses or penalties to threat confirmation rolls, since it doesn't really depend much on the weapon type.

Bronze maces were used well into the middle ages, but it doesn't mean they were the equal of steel, it was just that the difference wasn't worth the cost for most people. Weight and durability aren't major considerations for common soldiers in many cases. But, there should never be NO penalty for using the cheaper material, or else no one would ever make a steel mace.

A bone glaive would do 1d8 *2 whereas a bone spear keeps its full damage and crit.

Whether this is good for realism or not, it's probably not too good for game balance. My point, though, was that if you make the penalty for Bone only apply to a single type of weapon (spear) and not to any others, it keeps people from wanting to use that weapon type; they'll just switch to a similar weapon that SHOULD have the same sort of drawback but doesn't.
You could just say "any attack roll of a natural 1 with a bone weapon risks breaking the weapon; roll again. If you miss this fumble confirmation roll the weapon breaks." Basically, just a more serious fumble penalty. Then, it wouldn't matter what kind of weapon they take, and you don't need large tables.

And to add to CCamfield's table:
Brass was copper and zinc, usually in an 80/20 split I think. Orichalcum was copper and gold (usually 80/20 also). Copper's just one of those metals that makes alloys really easily.

 

[Aaron2]

It depends what the penalty is. Instead of attack and damage penalties, you could always play around with its crit numbers. A mace has a 20/x2 crit, so penalizing either threat range or multiplier doesn't hurt maces at all. Penalizing just threat range favors axes and picks over swords (a good option for iron/crude steel, for example).

So, you could say bronze was "-1 to crit multiplier, -1 to threat range", and it'd make bronze an inferior material overall, but only in regards to critical hits. Base damage would be unaffected, and weapons that already had a 20/x2 crit (which is mostly blunt ones) wouldn't change at all.

That's essentially what I did. A Stone mace is as good as a metal one but a stone axe is not.

Bronze maces were used well into the middle ages, but it doesn't mean they were the equal of steel, it was just that the difference wasn't worth the cost for most people. Weight and durability aren't major considerations for common soldiers in many cases. But, there should never be NO penalty for using the cheaper material, or else no one would ever make a steel mace.

Actually, bronze is more expensive than iron since tin is so rare. The only weapon that's just as good as a normal one and is less expensive is a stone mace. It only suffers in the hardness/hit point department.

Whether this is good for realism or not, it's probably not too good for game balance. My point, though, was that if you make the penalty for Bone only apply to a single type of weapon (spear) and not to any others, it keeps people from wanting to use that weapon type; they'll just switch to a similar weapon that SHOULD have the same sort of drawback but doesn't.

I'm not sure what your saying. I don't see how it affects game balance at all. Why does it matter whether someone wants to use a bone sword or not?


Aaron

 

[Golem2176]

THE definitive source for weapons and armor of the past and the different materials that are used to make them is Gary Gygax's World Builder. It has lists upon lists of this material and as an added bous every list that has the d20 logo in it is open content. Can it get much better than that? Can it?