D&D (2024) Weapon Mastery + Cunning Strike+ Battle Master

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Okay, so we do not have a complete look at fighter, but we can assume battle master will show up in one way shape or form.

Lord Knows there are enough "Fighters are too weak/fighters are fine" threads so for this thread can we all just work on the assumption that the fighter we end up with in 2024 will not be a carbon copy of the 2014 book but will also not be as powerful/flexable as a full caster?

So weapon mastery looked like it was going to be the warrior thing with fighters doing it best. The latest we have gives it to rogues. Now the latest rogue without even taking a subclass gets the ability to trade every round damage for cool effects at 5th+ level.

Disarm, Trip, Poison and withdraw show up for 1d of SA at 5th
At level 11 you can do 2 of them (costing 2 dice though) so you can trip and poison or disarm and withdraw
At level 14 you get Daze (2d) knock out (6d) and obscure (3d)

now combined with weapon mastery this is more options than I would expect (especially with mix and matching)

assuming most play time is between 3rd and 11th level, in more then half of it (5-11) the rouge is now a darn good complex fighter.

if you take swashbuckler there are 4 more of those too.


so how do you think a 2024 battle master will play against this? a battle master can't disarm every round in the 2014 phb, do you think they will in 2024?

 

[Emberashh]

Part of me expects they'll delete the Battlemaster.

 

[mellored]

Part of me expects they'll delete the Battlemaster.

If there is some kind of "trade extra attack do extra effect" then I could see removing battlemaster.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Part of me expects they'll delete the Battlemaster.

I hope not, it is as close to a complex fighter as we have right now without bringing magic into it.

If there is some kind of "trade extra attack do extra effect" then I could see removing battlemaster.

yeah, I almost just want the battle master dice to just always be there.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I hope not, it is as close to a complex fighter as we have right now without bringing magic into it.


yeah, I almost just want the battle master dice to just always be there.

For class mechanics, I want the Maneuvers to be broadened to be Fighter-specific, rather than Battlemaster-specific. There should be some simpler maneuver options for simple Champion players alongside more tactical, crunchy options that can stack interestingly with Weapon Mastery benefits. (But I also want Battlemasters to exist and be able to use maneuvers more/better.)

 

[Remathilis]

For class mechanics, I want the Maneuvers to be broadened to be Fighter-specific, rather than Battlemaster-specific. There should be some simpler maneuver options for simple Champion players alongside more tactical, crunchy options that can stack interestingly with Weapon Mastery benefits. (But I also want Battlemasters to exist and be able to use maneuvers more/better.)

I honestly wouldn't mind if the champion and battlemaster both were dissected and put into the base fighter and a new tactical fighter that is part battlemaster, part warlord came into its place. Of course, I also want awesome magical/mythical fighter subs like dragon knights and titan-borns.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don’t think Battlemaster Maneuvers are likely to get incorporated into the base class for the simple reason that even tracking Superiority Dice and deciding when to use or not use them sets the baseline level of complexity higher than I think they want for fighters, even before choosing which maneuver to use when you spend a superiority die. They likely want to insure there is an option for players who just want to spam basic attacks every turn and not have to make additional decisions beyond which enemy to target.

 

[mellored]

I honestly wouldn't mind if the champion and battlemaster both were dissected and put into the base fighter and a new tactical fighter that is part battlemaster, part warlord came into its place. Of course, I also want awesome magical/mythical fighter subs like dragon knights and titan-borns.

So something like.

Level 1: chose one of these options
Tactical: you gain some maneuver
Brute: you get bigger numbers.

?

 

[Remathilis]

So something like.

Level 1: chose one of these options
Tactical: you gain some maneuver
Brute: you get bigger numbers.

?

Sorta?

See, my ultimate vision for the fighter would be to drown it in a bathtub and replace it with a more interesting warrior class that sits somewhere between a monk and a sorcerer in terms of flavor. A warrior that gets cool abilities via martial training and mystical power. The base class would start as something akin to what the battlemaster is doing now: weapon masteries, maneuvers, superiority dice, superior athletics, etc. At low levels, keeping in the realm of highly trained athletes, at high levels reaching superhero-like levels of prowess and stamina. Subclasses would work like the sorcerer in that it defined a destiny (origin, power-source, or training style) that gives you supernatural powers. Titan-borns have raw strength and endurance like giants, dragon knights can breathe fire, radiate fear, or fly, psi-warriors use psionics like a jedi, and crusaders are tacticians devoted to cause who inspire allies and provide support abilities. The notion of a non-special dude with a sword would be relegated to NPC status (much like how common priests are not clerics, common warriors would not be this fighter).

If you were still looking for that "simple fighter" feel, I would probably have some options where you could burn superiority dice without needing a specific maneuver, pick titanborn for "I'm strong" as your sub and most focus on whacking things. Moderately more complicated than a champion fighter, but probably a lot better balanced.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

They likely want to insure there is an option for players who just want to spam basic attacks every turn and not have to make additional decisions beyond which enemy to target.

It's a such a weird dumb pointless goal.

The noobiest players in D&D consistently go for some of the most complex classes, and pretty much never go for Fighter, so it serves no purpose there. Rangers, Druids, Bards, Sorcerers and the like attract infinitely more interest from new players.

There is an ageing beer-and-pretzels crowd who do like the simple Fighter, but like, what % of D&D players are they? 3%? 4%? Something like that.

The problem I think is that the designers themselves are stuck in a deeply Gen-X mindset on Fighters, and unable to escape, or to see that a more modern design would serve the bulk of their customers better.