Weapon Prowess? Add Dex mod to damage?

[Chairman7w]

Anyone ever heard of a Feat called Weapon's Prowess, where you add your Dex Modifier to damage, instead of your STR mod?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I have not heard of it. Are you interested in comments on whether to allow such a feat (once the specifics are found)?

 

[Khayman]

Iron Heroes has something similar, with the expanded mastery of Weapon Finesse. The fourth level of it (or so) allows the user to apply their Dexterity bonus to damage instead of Strength.

This would be several feats down the feat tree, so I don't think it's terribly unbalanced --- assuming that you're using such a system in your game.

 

[Crothian]

THere might be something like that in the netbook of feats or in a third party older book. I recall people talking about something similiar a few years back just not sure where it is from.

 

[Pasus Nauran]

In the campaign I'm a part of, I recently had our DM approve such a feat that we created.

Deadly Grace [General]
You know how to place your attacks to maximize damage.

Prerequisite: Dex 15, Int 3, Weapon Finesse, BAB +1

Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to weapon damage. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your weapon damage.

Normal: A character uses his strength bonus on damage with melee attacks.

Special: You apply your full Dexterity bonus to weapon damage on weapons wielded in your primary hand or with both hands. Weapons wielded in your off hand only gain 1/2 your Dexterity bonus to damage.

A fighter may select Deadly Grace as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Natural weapons are always considered light weapons.

Deadly Grace may be learned by an Int 2 animal if it is also trained to attack vitals (counting as the learned trick – "Go for the vitals").

I think there's a feat posted somewhere on this messageboard called "Improved Weapon Finesse", which is essentially the same thing.

I'm not sure why WoTC hasn't officially created such a feat.

 

[Chairman7w]

Infiniti2000 wrote: "I have not heard of it. Are you interested in comments on whether to allow such a feat (once the specifics are found)?"

Absolutely, chime in buddy. It seems to me like it could be a bit strong for a High-Dex Roguey type. Esp. once you start throwing Sneak Attack and such in there.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm not sure why WoTC hasn't officially created such a feat.

My guess is because it is a highly unbalanced feat. It not only makes the Strength ability score virtually disappear, but it strengthens Dexterity, allowing a character to dump points into Dex and get AC, Attack Rolls, Damage, and Reflex Saves.

This would allow a character with 2 Strength and 20 Dexterity to outdamage a character with 18 Strength and 18 Dexterity, for instance, as you get to eliminate the Strength penalty. In general, it is best to leave at least one important feature that belongs to an ability score when you start divvying out its features to other ability scores (in this case, the damage bonus feature is Strength's such feature) or else you risk marginalising that ability.

 

[Pasus Nauran]

My guess is because it is a highly unbalanced feat. It not only makes the Strength ability score virtually disappear, but it strengthens Dexterity, allowing a character to dump points into Dex and get AC, Attack Rolls, Damage, and Reflex Saves.

This would allow a character with 2 Strength and 20 Dexterity to outdamage a character with 18 Strength and 18 Dexterity, for instance, as you get to eliminate the Strength penalty. In general, it is best to leave at least one important feature that belongs to an ability score when you start divvying out its features to other ability scores (in this case, the damage bonus feature is Strength's such feature) or else you risk marginalising that ability.

Well, you could first limit it to only Finessable weapons. That restricts the feat to low-damage weapons.

You could also further restrict the Dex-based damage bonus only to creature that are suceptible to critical hits (though this would cause more administration).

You can also give it a good number of prerequisites, limiting it only to character who are truly dedicated to getting it's benefits.

The reasoning behind such a feat is simple: a skilled fighter can do as much (if not more) damage by attacking particular areas or in particular ways, as he could by simply swinging as hard as he can.

Frankly, I already think the d20 system is wrong for using Strength for both Attack and Damage. Strength has nothing to do with one's ability to hit a target. Making it a feat to be able to use Dex for your attack bonuses is a big hit to any dex-based character in this game where there aren't enough feats given out. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Rystil Arden]

a skilled fighter can do as much (if not more) damage by attacking particular areas or in particular ways, as he could by simply swinging as hard as he can.

I suggest leaving that particular description to the abstraction of Sneak Attack. At the very most, make a hard-to-get class feature (like the one from Complete Warrior's Swashbuckler) that adds Intelligence to the mix without replacing Strength.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Absolutely, chime in buddy. It seems to me like it could be a bit strong for a High-Dex Roguey type. Esp. once you start throwing Sneak Attack and such in there.

Rystil Arden said it for me. I didn't want to immediately start in with the negatives, so I asked. Basically, such a feat is unbalanced because it does not require a relatively balanced character at all. I liken it to eventually coming up with a viable, nay a very capable, character build with 3's in all stats except one. The next feat would be Dextrous Fortitude, then Dextrous Will (so Dex is used for all saves), etc. Now, I'm being somewhat facetious on this, as I don't think anyone would really go that far, but I wouldn't doubt it.

Well, you could first limit it to only Finessable weapons. That restricts the feat to low-damage weapons.

Not for monks (especially if you allow INA). There are likely other finessable weapons that are not really low-damage. With this feat, the Dextrous monk suddenly becomes much more powerful and the strength monk becomes a dinosaur.

Frankly, I already think the d20 system is wrong for using Strength for both Attack and Damage. Strength has nothing to do with one's ability to hit a target.

But, using a single stat for all parts of offense and defense is a serious mistake. A single feat is not enough to balance this. But, that's why I asked for specifics. IMO, almost anything can be balanced if given the appropriate 'cost'.