Weapon Prowess? Add Dex mod to damage?

[SidusLupus]

There is an official ability that allows you to add dex to weapon damage.

In Races of the Wild, there's an PRC Champion of the elf diety. You must be an elf to take the class, and one of the abilities that the 10 level class adds is the ability to add your dex mod to damage in addition to strength. It's very powerful, and as such is probably only semi balanced if you allow it to be a class ability. The damage is precision based, so you can't use it on undead/ constructs elementals, ect.

I don't have the book in front of me, so I couldn't say more than that.

 

[Nim]

I suggest leaving that particular description to the abstraction of Sneak Attack.

Or Improved Critical....

 

[Nim]

The reasoning behind such a feat is simple: a skilled fighter can do as much (if not more) damage by attacking particular areas or in particular ways, as he could by simply swinging as hard as he can.

However, the feat described (replace Strength bonus with Dex bonus for the purpose of computing damage) doesn't model what you're describing.

Sure, hitting the right spot lightly might do the same damage as hitting a random spot hard. But hitting the right spot HARD should do even more. Adding in Dex and REMOVING Strength is odd. Yes, I realize that's how Weapon Finesse works. It's still odd.

Strength is never irrelevant in melee. Sometimes it's better to be fast & precise than strong, and sometimes it's better to be strong than fast & precise, but it's always best to be strong AND fast AND precise

 

[Testament]

Well, you could first limit it to only Finessable weapons. That restricts the feat to low-damage weapons.

Nice, in theory, except that at mid to high levels, the damage dice become irrelevant, its what you're adding thats providing the real damage.

 

[Shadow64]

Well, you could first limit it to only Finessable weapons. That restricts the feat to low-damage weapons.

See Races of the Wild, the Elven Courtblade is a d10 / 18-20x2 weapon that can be finessed. Granted, it takes two feats to use it right, but what combat-based rogue wouldn't take two or three fighter levels to be able to finesse a d10 weapon AND add their dex damage (if a dex to damage feat was available)?

As a side note, there is a feat in the Hero's Guidebook (i think that's the name, it's not in front of me) that has a feat for 7th level Jedi that allows them to use 1.5xDex Mod for damage single-handed or 2xDex Mod when they weild it in two hands.

I semi-converted it for use in another game as a players option, but it was a psionic feat and required a power point reserve, psionic focus, weapon finesse, weapon focus and a +5 or +6 BAB. Also, the Dex damage only applied to the weapon you had focus with, so you couldn't use it with all finessable weapons.

 

[Storyteller01]

We have a feat like this in IMC, but we kept the 3.0 Weapon Finesse rules (daggers and rapiers require different techniques to get the best finesse, for example). This seems to work well at maintaining a balance.

You're roguish type can gain the bennies of the feat, but only with the one weapon. The fighter PA's with anything in hand.

 

[Scion]

I dont see a problem.

Give it weapon finesse as a prereq and then after spending two feats you have mostly replaced what str does for you.

But of course you can only use it with specific weapons and it took two feats to get there.

Two feats to use one stat instead of another for most of its uses seems fine to me. Especially when it is limited in other ways as well (limited to only finessible weapons, no double bonus for two handed, dex damage seriously impairs the character quickly, a likely low str makes one vulnerable in a number of other ways, etc).

The biggest problem I see is that it is difficult to take both at first level. Class defining things I feel should be able to be gotten early on.

But then others might see that as sufficient penalty to make up for the other benefits

 

[Nim]

I dont see a problem.

Give it weapon finesse as a prereq and then after spending two feats you have mostly replaced what str does for you.

But of course you can only use it with specific weapons and it took two feats to get there.

Two feats to use one stat instead of another for most of its uses seems fine to me. Especially when it is limited in other ways as well (limited to only finessible weapons, no double bonus for two handed, dex damage seriously impairs the character quickly, a likely low str makes one vulnerable in a number of other ways, etc).

The biggest problem I see is that it is difficult to take both at first level. Class defining things I feel should be able to be gotten early on.

But then others might see that as sufficient penalty to make up for the other benefits

So, how many feats to apply Strength to AC, initiative, and Reflex saves?

 

[Scion]

So, how many feats to apply Strength to AC, initiative, and Reflex saves?

Depends on the prereqs of course

I feel that weapon finesse is a worthless enough feat that it is a pretty harsh prereq.. I also feel that it should be automatic with any weapon that is finesseable... but working with the rules as written useing it as a prereq to the other effect seems like a good one. Especially since the character type who would like it the most in my opinion (rogue and rogue like types) cannot get it at first level. You would have to give up a lot of skill points to do it.

Still though, a feat chain to take over all of dex's abilities? That would be interesting indeed.. In fact, I might just go and make a psionic version which does just that..lol.. Needing to hold focus tends to balance a lot of things out very quickly.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

So, how many feats to apply Strength to AC, initiative, and Reflex saves?

As far as the complaints about how taking all these feats and such can make Str worthless (which, as long as light and maximum loads are enforced, it NEVER will be ):
If you wanted to make dex worthless, WotC has amply provided the powergamer. Just take improved initiative, Insightful Reflexes (CV, Int mod to ref saves instead of dex), zen archery, brutal throw (str used for thrown weap attack rolls instead of dex) and put on the heaviest armor you can find. Granted, that's a lot of feats that cover 3 different ability scores, but a) a fighter could still easily afford them and b) no one should ever need all of those. With II, IR, and BT alone you'd be able to play a burly fighter hurling weapons without need of a good dex score. Sure, you'd need a higher int, but that gets you skill points anyway. Plus, take 3 levels of swashbuckler and you're doing str + int damage!