weapon sizes

[Doombybbr]

I have some special rules about weapon sizes as certain two handed weapons shouldn't be.

the weapon sizes work like this where the small, normal, etc. above the damage field represents character size, this increases for each 2 weapon sizes, if you make an action with a weapon size greater than the characters corresponding one(if the weapon is involved) the effects are as follows(the character also cannot equip a weapon with 4 or weapon sizes above their own) note that these effects do not stack and do not apply to free actions.
same weapon size or lower: no special rules
+1 weapon size: actions cost an additional minor
+2 weapon size: actions cost an additional move
+3 weapon size: actions cost an additional move and minor therefore using the standard + move + minor you get each turn
so you CAN equip weapon sizes up to 3 higher then yours, you just end up with a serious debuf.

all weapons count as versatile except the ones you cannot equip in one hand (due to weapon size) and ranged weapons, for a heavy or light blade to count as a light blade instead of a heavy blade they need to be at least two below the characters corresponding one handed one and/or be 1d4.

here are the tables(only part of this - the damage values was taken from the players handbook)

one handed
______small________ normal________ large________ huge
1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 ->(after this you must decide if it comes up)

two handed
______small_________ normal______ large_________ huge
1d8 -> 2d4 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 -> 2d12 ->(after this you must decide if it comes up)

you CAN choose to have feats that increase weapon size for a character.

when buying(or selling) a weapon of a different weapon size from the normal version(as you can have a larger weapon size for more damage if you choose) the costs are as follows

weapon size change:-5 - 4__-3 -2 -1 +0 +1__+2+3+4+5 +6
cost: ____________x.1 x.2x.3x.5 x.8 x1 x1.5 x2 x3 x4 x6 x8
anything below -5 is x.1 and the method for generating positive numbers in this table is as follows: for EVEN numbers each increase of 2 in weapon size doubles the cost, for odd numbers they are 1.5 x the value on their left.

this means that you CAN get a dagger with 1d10 but it stops being a light blade after 1d6 (as who heard of a LIGHT blade that is as heavy as a bastard sword.)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I kinda like where this could be headed.. but not sure if its something that could work.

If I am understanding right you are replacing all melee weapons with a stock mechanic for damage expression based on the weapon size.

I like the idea of having to spend more actions to support swinging bigger versions of weapons.. but I have two concerns:

1> Why is bigger always more damage? Well, that is a problem with the core 4e rules to.. so we can gloss over that and keep going

2> How do you differentiate between weapon types? A longsword should feel different than a maul or khopesh and a claymore should be different than a glaive. Perhaps have the weapon type provide a unique bonus ability/something above the stock damage?
Something like: Pole-arms have a damage of one size lower than they are but gain a reach of 1. Mauls gain brutal 1, etc..

 

[Doombybbr]

yes you will have to give each weapon type a modified weapon size based on that (also based on the price) as a unique blade may have a weapon size intended for small characters to weild in one hand but it may have a damage value similar to that which a normal sized character can weild in TWO hands so here is a revision.
the format is:
character size
weapon size
EXPECTED damage
one handed
______small________normal________large_________huge
small1 small2 normal1 normal2 large1__large2 huge1__huge2
1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 ->(after this you must decide if it comes up)

two handed
_______small___________normal________large___________huge
normal1 normal2__large1__large2__huge1_huge2__massive1
__1d8 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 -> 2d12 ->(after this you must decide if it comes up)
please note that all weapons should cost a similar price eg. 20 GP to make up for the fact that someone may get a longsword sized dagger for cheaper then the longsword(and maybe you should make a price table based on weapon size instead of the prices the weapons have in the players guide)

however i think the number of weapon types should be lowered a bit as many are very similar stats with a different cost, instead here is my idea for the weapon types(i only incuded extra weapons if they DON'T have similar stats). and weapon proficiencies apply for sub types of weapons note on subtypes their values replace the normal values. and thrown weapons of the blade type have heavy or light thrown depending on if it is a light blade.
maces:
usually +2 prof, 1d6, small2, price similar to small2
subtype club: normal stats
subtype metal mace: high crit, price similar to normal1
Blades(whether it is light or heavy depends on my previoustly stated rules)
usually +2 prof, 1d6, small2, price similar to small2
subtype precise blade: prof +3 cost in between small2 and normal1
subtype deadly blade: high crit cost similar to normal1
subtype awesome blade: prof +3, high crit,
subtype normal blade: normal stats
subtype thrown blade: has thrown property, cost in between small2 and normal1
subtype glaive:is ALSO a polarm, reach propertie, normal1, cost is similar to normal1
subtype awesome glaive: has the bonuses of a glaive and awesome blade combined but is normal2 and normal2 cost.
spears:
prof +2, reach property, heavy thrown until it loses 2 weapon sizes ,1d8, normal2, costs similar to normal2
subtype normal spear: normal stats
subtype long spear: availably when weilding two handed-it is now also a polearm(when weilding twohanded you decide if it is a normal spear or long spear).
Axes:
prof+2, 1d8, high crit,normal1, cost similar to normal1
subtype normal axe: normal stats
subtype polearm axe:also a polearm, reach property,normal2, cost is normal2
subtype throwm axe: light thrown at small2 and below, heavy thrown at normal1 and above, normal2, cost is normal2.
hammers: there is nothing special about these so i left them out.
flails: there is nothing special about these

as for ranged weapons these may have upgraded versions that instead of being weilded based on weapon size are weilded based on dex or proficiencies or both.

 

[Doombybbr]

and also you are allowed to create a "unique weapon" where you can decide the weapon type and subtype and everything else is up to you(if you the dm) for say eg. a boss where the weapon is called slashender and stats are blade:subclass glaive: normal2, 2d10 damage, reach, is also a polearm AND it is a magic weapon(with a badass effect), value 300AD.
but do not let the players do this unless you agree with both the stats and the price, as you should never let them have a 5d20 damage weapon as this is too much and if you DO let the player obtain slashender or something else that is epic it must cost a TON.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

In my experience, using 'cost' as a balancing factor is horrible because either they steal it, steal the money, or whatever.. and now you have an out of balance game.

I would prefer to have a cost in the damage dice or accuracy.. starting with a base of the longsword, and adding/removing elements from there. Have hard limits on how accurate {-4 prof to +4 prof} and how much off the base damage by size {alter by no more than two categories}

So you have your damage by size for bladed weapons, and the 'normal' is a +2 prof bonus, for example.

Hammers/mauls/clubs deal damage as if one size larger but are less accurate.
Reach weapons deal damage as if one size smaller, but have a reach of 1
Masterwork {Katana} deals damage as if one size larger, but requires a special feat to use correctly.. otherwize it deals damage for its size.

That way you don't have a huge list of sub-type, just a short list of weapon aspects that can be tacked on the mechanics to make a unique weapon.

Part of this is because I like simpler house rules. Another part is that the more complex and different you try to be from RAW.. the more conflict with your players and published material you will get

I wish that WoTC had gone this way in the first place, but alas.. we get laundry lists of unique weapons that are.. in most cases, pretty much the same {Khopesh anyone?}

edit... almost forgot.. bows. Search for "Discussion on Bows" here for an excellent PDF that consolidates bows by strength rating...

 

[rob12]

I have some special rules about weapon sizes as certain two handed weapons shouldn't be.

the weapon sizes work like this where the small, normal, etc. above the damage field represents character size, this increases for each 2 weapon sizes, if you make an action with a weapon size greater than the characters corresponding one(if the weapon is involved) the effects are as follows(the character also cannot equip a weapon with 4 or weapon sizes above their own) note that these effects do not stack and do not apply to free actions.
same weapon size or lower: no special rules
+1 weapon size: actions cost an additional minor
+2 weapon size: actions cost an additional move
+3 weapon size: actions cost an additional move and minor therefore using the standard + move + minor you get each turn
so you CAN equip weapon sizes up to 3 higher then yours, you just end up with a serious debuf.

all weapons count as versatile except the ones you cannot equip in one hand (due to weapon size) and ranged weapons, for a heavy or light blade to count as a light blade instead of a heavy blade they need to be at least two below the characters corresponding one handed one and/or be 1d4.

here are the tables(only part of this - the damage values was taken from the players handbook)

one handed
______small________ normal________ large________ huge
1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 ->(after this you must decide if it comes up)

two handed
______small_________ normal______ large_________ huge
1d8 -> 2d4 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10 -> 2d12 ->(after this you must decide if it comes up)

you CAN choose to have feats that increase weapon size for a character.

when buying(or selling) a weapon of a different weapon size from the normal version(as you can have a larger weapon size for more damage if you choose) the costs are as follows

weapon size change:-5 - 4__-3 -2 -1 +0 +1__+2+3+4+5 +6
cost: ____________x.1 x.2x.3x.5 x.8 x1 x1.5 x2 x3 x4 x6 x8
anything below -5 is x.1 and the method for generating positive numbers in this table is as follows: for EVEN numbers each increase of 2 in weapon size doubles the cost, for odd numbers they are 1.5 x the value on their left.

this means that you CAN get a dagger with 1d10 but it stops being a light blade after 1d6 (as who heard of a LIGHT blade that is as heavy as a bastard sword.)

You say too well ....

 

[Doombybbr]

In my experience, using 'cost' as a balancing factor is horrible because either they steal it, steal the money, or whatever.. and now you have an out of balance game.

I would prefer to have a cost in the damage dice or accuracy.. starting with a base of the longsword, and adding/removing elements from there. Have hard limits on how accurate {-4 prof to +4 prof} and how much off the base damage by size {alter by no more than two categories}

So you have your damage by size for bladed weapons, and the 'normal' is a +2 prof bonus, for example.

Hammers/mauls/clubs deal damage as if one size larger but are less accurate.
Reach weapons deal damage as if one size smaller, but have a reach of 1
Masterwork {Katana} deals damage as if one size larger, but requires a special feat to use correctly.. otherwize it deals damage for its size.

That way you don't have a huge list of sub-type, just a short list of weapon aspects that can be tacked on the mechanics to make a unique weapon.

Part of this is because I like simpler house rules. Another part is that the more complex and different you try to be from RAW.. the more conflict with your players and published material you will get

I wish that WoTC had gone this way in the first place, but alas.. we get laundry lists of unique weapons that are.. in most cases, pretty much the same {Khopesh anyone?}

edit... almost forgot.. bows. Search for "Discussion on Bows" here for an excellent PDF that consolidates bows by strength rating...

The main idea is that some weapons are completely and utterly opsolete so no-one uses scythes(a well made one can be more effective than a sword so it doing 1d6 no matter what is kinda stupid) and the fact that you cannot ACTUALLY weild a short sword as a cleric is stupid AS IN WHY THE HELL CAN HE NOT USE A WEAPON THAT IS DESIGNED TO BE WEILDED WITH VERY LITTLE STRENGTH(why do you think they were used instead of scythes in wars-because they CAN be weilded)
besides i think "balance" is when the weapons are exactely the same, while the player may go for the more flawed weapons(in terms of damage) for their awesome properties(and the rogue will deliberately lower their weapon size so that they get a light blade- you can still use the weapon damage tables if you want to but that means that certain weapons are never used) I do think that military training(for weapons should increase the available weapon size and the proficiency should do that a tiny bit more but you could make the availible weapon size-for on particular type a completely different feat)

 

[Doombybbr]

and i do not see why your characters are evil aligned and steal money - they would need to have the weapon custom forged by a blacksmith so stealing it is not possible and the money would eventually be found anyway(so what if they are a little stronger then the monsters because they got a really cool weapon - you can use an enemy with just as cool a weapon in a near encounter as part of this system means you can have enemies with custom weapons as well) besides the value of a weapon depends on its effectiveness.
you could try to put in a part where the weapon can be more effective than it should be but it costs a ton(probably more then the magic items) so that the players have to decide between enchantements and a weapon that is cool wihout them(solo enemies seem to have a lot of these for some reason)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I thought the idea was to have mechanics for damage, etc that was balanced and separated from the name of the weapon. In this way you can have a 'scythe' that is balanced mechanically but allows the character to have the right flavor.

All while not creating 'this weapon is better than that one'

Its not that the PCs are evil... its that if you give a cool weapon to a bad guy. The bad guy will end up dying and the PCs end up with the weapon.

 

[Doombybbr]

the enemy may have a very large weapon that is (almost) impossible to weild or they may run after the battle OR the sword may be cursed for those who weild it if the weapon wasn't given willingly(every evil villian worth their salt will do something like this just in case the heroes succeed in killing them) but the boss will need special abilities and high stats that add damage to the weapons basic damage value-the heroe should get the same weapon as the bad guy was using after the battle so you have to keep that in regard when giving the bad guy a weapon-that some bad guys only have very cool equipment helping them out as they have a lot of cash while others do not need it-you can use this fact to manipulate the how good the items are for one particular dungeon if the party has too much or too little treasure(this can also apply to how GOOD the treasure is-the existance of an item in a cave or on a bad guy must make sense).
but i agree that you should somehow stop the players from getting hold of certain weapons(this is also important as if you look at the weapon powers of certain monsters you realise that they do NOT have a normal broardsword eg.some orcs have greataxes with some rather odd damage and hit values, they also have the ability to use a standard action when bloodied to use a healing surge once per encounter-this is a weapon ability so you have to be careful about using monster manual enemies or some normal enemies will have fancy weapons on them).