Weapons of Legacy: Balancing levelled items

[Nightfall]

Dunno man. If I'm a full caster, losing caster levels STILL hurts praticed spellcaster or not. (Besides burn a feat to fix the cost?! )

Still not a bad item. Just not a great playable item for many people.

 

[MerricB]

Dunno man. If I'm a full caster, losing caster levels STILL hurts praticed spellcaster or not. (Besides burn a feat to fix the cost?! )

Still not a bad item. Just not a great playable item for many people.

Caster levels is just the spell effects, mind you, not the spell slots you have. A 20th level caster would have the spells of a 20th level caster, but it'd be an 18d6 damage rather than 20d6...

...assuming you used spells that trigger off Caster Level. A lot of them don't care that much.

Cheers!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Feats are an unequal resource. Losing them as a cleric is harsh; losing them as a fighter is easy.

I missed this thread the first time around, but I'm really enjoying your analysis, Merric. You're shedding some light on the apparent mechanical thinking behind this system that never would have occured to me.

The question, though, is whether it's better to go with the scion PrC in UA/____ of the Ages.

 

[dagger]

Im not too worried about balance, all the PCs have one. I just removed the penalties.

 

[Nightfall]

Dusty,

It's a little moot, but either is fine. Me, I'd enjoy using the Scions mostly for the fact it's a focus issue for me.

Dagger,

Oookkaaay...*prepares Dagger for the 20th caster level fireball from a ring on a 8th level bard*

 

[MerricB]

I missed this thread the first time around, but I'm really enjoying your analysis, Merric. You're shedding some light on the apparent mechanical thinking behind this system that never would have occured to me.

The question, though, is whether it's better to go with the scion PrC in UA/____ of the Ages.

I *really* don't like the scion PrCs (as presented in UA).

They aren't generally applicable to the non-core classes (i.e. not Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue); and not that applicable to Cleric or Rogue either! The reason being that you sacrifice all your normal abilities to the Scion PrCs.

Would a monk ever want a Scion PrC? No. With the plethora of PC classes that are in the game today, either you have a specific PrC for each, or you make the "real" class of the user irrelevant. That's not good.

(I'm not too impressed by the PrC in WoL, but I do think it is more applicable).

There is a dominance in the PrC mold that makes the PC completely subservient to the weapon. The items in WoL serve the primary class of the PC, whether prestige or base. There's no possible compromise in UA.

As a result, (almost) *any* character can use the rules in WoL.

Cheers!

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

An interesting add-on to D&D, I've been thinking, would be some strap-on version of Iron Heroes that works with WoL. Instead of penalizing the guy with the WoL, power the other players up with self-borne talents.

Hrmmm.

--fje

 

[Zephyrus]

That item wasent that bad Merric.. very nice... I too have made a item from WoL though one of the things I think is whats sapposed to make WoL interesting is that its not all just about making hte biggest baddest weapon you can get. Its about history and investing in your character. Thats I think one of the reasons why the premade items are so interesting even if I might not nessisarly use them. They are interesting.

I would love to see WotC do a webenhancement to WoL that added additional items to the different legacy tables (for those who are squeamish about making their own stuff up or that are bad at it). Include maybe somemore tables for legacy costs to shake things up a little and add a little more variety. That and maybe clarify a few things that might have some people confused.

I expecially like however the legacy item can change some of its powers such as that longsword which could be a weapon for good or evil or that Flail that changes effects based on the type of skull attached. The rules behind this can be used to make for some fun and interesting legacy items or a way to make a item with a energy type that changes based on what kind of jewel you socket into it and whatnot.

The legacy Item I made up for myself (it remains unknow if the GM will make it an existing legacy or if I'll have to forge it myself) is basically almost a 'ultimate wizards ring'. A little background on the character (at least stats wise) is that of a Grey Elf with Spellcasting Prodigy and Colligiate Wizard (I have flaws to get the extra feats at 1st level) and using the Elven Wizard Substitution levels. in a Nutshell I'm getting 5 automatic spells a level (its nuts! scarrier still is that with a straight wizard <or +1 to existing ... every level PClass> that I'll actually FILL a Boccob's book just with the automatic spells learned). The character will eventually become an Archmage.

Basically the items abilities are this. the first 6 legacy abilities are pretty much the assorted cantrips at will (lightbringer, magical cipher, etc..). Next starting with the lesser legacy it gets the uncanny dodge like ability evasion like abilities. The greater foundings basically grant the effects of a Ring of Wizardry 1, 2 and eventually 3 Doubling the number of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells per day (coincides with when the character will start taking Archmage levels) and I think at one point grants the +6 to one ability*.

* this is one of the points I would like clarification on. The way the legacy ability lists imply, the ability score bonuses dont stack thus gaining +2 to one stat is wasted if you want to get +4 later and +6 Eventually if you just wait for it. It doesnt say that the ability stacks either or that the previous benefit is a prereqisit which if it is then a +6 to one ability is not worth the legacy ability slots you are being made to pay for them.

Add that to the character will be taking Argent Savant (Complete Arcane), Force Missile Mage (Dragon Magazine) and the feat Arcane Manipulation (that allows a wizard to break spells up into component levels <limit on the number of spells that can be broken up>. The Character will be a magical missile monster. Its only a 2 character party with occational NPC help so their is a bit of a power curve in the players favor (the other character is a Half Orc Fighter <read - TWF TANK weilding Maul's 1h'd w/ the Oversized-TWF feat and Exotic Prof. Maul>.

But I am getting a little side tracked. The Legacy ring will prolly the penalities to spell slots all the way up to 8th or 9th level slots and add that to the PClasses I'm taking will mean I wont get my 9th level spells till 19th-20th level. And Generally (with the exception of the Evasion and Uncanny Dodge abilities) fit rather well with the idea that it was a item made for the wizard unless you figure the Evasion and Uncanny dodge like ability to be a 'means to an end' to describe magical protective abilities the ring imparts.

Thoughts on this item?

 

[MerricB]

That item wasent that bad Merric.. very nice... I too have made a item from WoL though one of the things I think is whats sapposed to make WoL interesting is that its not all just about making hte biggest baddest weapon you can get. Its about history and investing in your character. Thats I think one of the reasons why the premade items are so interesting even if I might not nessisarly use them. They are interesting.

I agree; though when I make an Item of Legacy I rather like "big bad weapons".

* this is one of the points I would like clarification on. The way the legacy ability lists imply, the ability score bonuses dont stack thus gaining +2 to one stat is wasted if you want to get +4 later and +6 Eventually if you just wait for it. It doesnt say that the ability stacks either or that the previous benefit is a prereqisit which if it is then a +6 to one ability is not worth the legacy ability slots you are being made to pay for them.

You're quite right; it isn't worth the slots. Here's what I did: at those levels where my staff gave a Cha bonus that superceded the one before, it gained a replacement ability at the same slot as the one that was superceded.

Thus, +2 Cha was a B slot. When the +4 Cha was added, (a E slot), I also had the staff gain a B ability at the same time. When the +6 Cha was added (a G slot), the staff also gained a E slot ability.

I'll do a little more analysis of your item after breakfast.

Cheers!

 

[Zephyrus]

I agree; though when I make an Item of Legacy I rather like "big bad weapons".

I agree their too.. I've got two that I'm brain storming... one for that Half-Orc TANK I mentioned earlier... though its gonna be alot more complicated.. and a more simple one that uses the interchangable rules to make a weapon with changable socketed powers.

Thanks for looking into the item. I've not finalized it yet. Though the GM for that game's been busy with work alot so theirs not been a push to finish it just yet (still disturbing even w/o the spellcasting prodigy to have a wizard get 5 automatics a level. Finally got a Boccob's so that he's not uncumbered trying to cart around all the spellbooks he's gonna need. Scary when at a point it becomes 1 spellbook per spell level cause of space limitations).

The item for the 'Tank' is sapposed to be what I am calling at the moment a 'weapon link' allowing you to take two weapons and join them to make a double weapon. the weapons retain their normal enhancement abilities but the legacy weapon link can do other things to protect the user or enhance the weapons indirectly or via spell effects cast on both weapons.