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Welcome to the Halmae (updated 2/27/07)
- Thread starter spyscribe
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Fajitas said:But what about the people? The peeeeee-ople!
>sigh< This was the adventure in which I discovered that my players really, really, really don't like moral ambiguities. They want the good guys on one side and the bad guys on the other side, and a nice red line dividing them. Oh, and big neon signs indicating which group is which. Yeah, they like that.
So much for all the complex, morally ambiguous places I'd been planning on taking the campaign...
It may not be moral ambiguity per se that's bothering them. It's just not very heroic to help this or that bunch of jerks who don't even want to be helped. In the writeup the innocent townsfolk caught up in the mess are barely mentioned; maybe they needed to get more attention and interaction?
But I shouldn't be a critic; you run a game I'd love to play in while I run nothing....
Edit: I wrote the above before reading the post where a villager did come up and ask for help. After the updates my sentiments have changed to "kill the elves."
I'm wondering what good a trial is going to do. The kids are guilty and admit it.
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Fajitas
Hold the Peppers
Wow. I'm not sure any story we've done yet here has generated this much conversation, which is a real thrill to me, let me say. I'm so glad to see this scenario appreciated; lord knows the PCs didn't much appreciate it at the time.
This adventure was, for anyone interested, *very* loosely inspired by the DarkSun scenario from Dungeon 110: "Last Stand at Outpost Three".
Frankly, I didn't think there was a compromise solution here. I wanted a complex scenario with intractable sides to argue with, wherein ultimately the PCs, unable to broker a settlement, would have to pick a side and fight (and I was fairly certain they were going to side with the Ebisites). In fact, I had some pretty cool combat scenarios ready and waiting, not that I'm still bitter or anything.
What I failed to account for was 1) Thatch's desire to pack up and go home, 2) Reyu's absolute refusal to take up arms against elves, no matter how crazy they were, and 3) the inevitable ability of PCs to cut the Gordian Knot, even if you've made it out of reinforced steel cables.
Capellan, as to the 19 Diplomacy on the roll of a 1, I often default to the 1 is auto-failure but there's a little GM fiat involved. When someone has to make a critical roll and everyone is really into the moment, standing up around the table so they can see the die roll, and you get that massive group groan when it comes up a 1... I like to ride that emotional wave. I concede, I'm not terribly consistent about this, and maybe that's a problem. Still... >shrug<
That said, I'm pretty sure that Lira's 19 is why the War Hand was willing to let her make restitution and stay a party to the compromise, rather than storming off and attacking the village forthwith. As I said, I didn't think there was a way to get the elves to compromise at all, and I *really* wanted to run those combats.
This adventure was, for anyone interested, *very* loosely inspired by the DarkSun scenario from Dungeon 110: "Last Stand at Outpost Three".
Frankly, I didn't think there was a compromise solution here. I wanted a complex scenario with intractable sides to argue with, wherein ultimately the PCs, unable to broker a settlement, would have to pick a side and fight (and I was fairly certain they were going to side with the Ebisites). In fact, I had some pretty cool combat scenarios ready and waiting, not that I'm still bitter or anything.
What I failed to account for was 1) Thatch's desire to pack up and go home, 2) Reyu's absolute refusal to take up arms against elves, no matter how crazy they were, and 3) the inevitable ability of PCs to cut the Gordian Knot, even if you've made it out of reinforced steel cables.
Capellan, as to the 19 Diplomacy on the roll of a 1, I often default to the 1 is auto-failure but there's a little GM fiat involved. When someone has to make a critical roll and everyone is really into the moment, standing up around the table so they can see the die roll, and you get that massive group groan when it comes up a 1... I like to ride that emotional wave. I concede, I'm not terribly consistent about this, and maybe that's a problem. Still... >shrug<
That said, I'm pretty sure that Lira's 19 is why the War Hand was willing to let her make restitution and stay a party to the compromise, rather than storming off and attacking the village forthwith. As I said, I didn't think there was a way to get the elves to compromise at all, and I *really* wanted to run those combats.
doghead
thotd
"Honor", it one of the greatest excuses for stupidity and cruelty.
I have found myself rather taken with the elves as depicted in WttH. But the War Hand and her lot leave me cold. So does that child who started all this. Her "honor" is going to mean parents will lose children, brothers and sisters will lose siblings, grandparents will lose grandchildren, and spouses will lose husbands or wives.
Between the War Hand and the girl, its a terrible price they are willing to make their tribe pay for their honor.
I have found myself rather taken with the elves as depicted in WttH. But the War Hand and her lot leave me cold. So does that child who started all this. Her "honor" is going to mean parents will lose children, brothers and sisters will lose siblings, grandparents will lose grandchildren, and spouses will lose husbands or wives.
Between the War Hand and the girl, its a terrible price they are willing to make their tribe pay for their honor.
WisdomLikeSilence
Community Supporter
Sheesh. What's with all the elf hate?
In the Halmae, slavery is an exclusively human institution. It's anathma to the elves. Plus, remember that the youngest child is only 10, the oldest is just 17, and by elven standards they're even younger. Since they did no permanent damage, counted coup, and did leave healing, this situation is a little like giving a group of children life in prison for joyriding.
The kids do deserve some punishment, sure, but enslavement? No way.
-WLS
jerichothebard said:
In the Halmae, slavery is an exclusively human institution. It's anathma to the elves. Plus, remember that the youngest child is only 10, the oldest is just 17, and by elven standards they're even younger. Since they did no permanent damage, counted coup, and did leave healing, this situation is a little like giving a group of children life in prison for joyriding.
The kids do deserve some punishment, sure, but enslavement? No way.
-WLS
dpdx
Explorer
As a long-time reader and fervent admirer of both this storyhour and the game that generates it, I'd like to take a shot at an analysis.
What the audience is reacting to isn't elves, elvishness, or even this group of elves in particular - it's their fundamentalism. It's moral absolutes like demanding a body part to atone for an insult of the custom, instead of the people who hold it.
Lira, I believe, would have found the demand (in this case, demanding that innocent people of the town not be allowed to leave the town) sickening no matter who made it. It's hostage-taking, at its most basic level, and I'd venture to guess that the majority of the audience agrees with Lira as to the acceptability of it as an item on the table. It has nothing to do with the Shesher, the War Hand, or elves in general except that they're the ones who demanded the lockdown.
So I don't think it's elf-hate, so much as it is the hostage-taking, that makes all of us (myself included) so eager to throw the Shesher who made it, under the bus. The Ebisites, on the other hand, never made an equivalent demand, for example, that Shesher non-combatants present themselves for annihilation.
What we really need is an update, so we can move on and not have to worry about potential bad outcomes to this scenario, but instead reflect on what was the outcome.
What the audience is reacting to isn't elves, elvishness, or even this group of elves in particular - it's their fundamentalism. It's moral absolutes like demanding a body part to atone for an insult of the custom, instead of the people who hold it.
Lira, I believe, would have found the demand (in this case, demanding that innocent people of the town not be allowed to leave the town) sickening no matter who made it. It's hostage-taking, at its most basic level, and I'd venture to guess that the majority of the audience agrees with Lira as to the acceptability of it as an item on the table. It has nothing to do with the Shesher, the War Hand, or elves in general except that they're the ones who demanded the lockdown.
So I don't think it's elf-hate, so much as it is the hostage-taking, that makes all of us (myself included) so eager to throw the Shesher who made it, under the bus. The Ebisites, on the other hand, never made an equivalent demand, for example, that Shesher non-combatants present themselves for annihilation.
What we really need is an update, so we can move on and not have to worry about potential bad outcomes to this scenario, but instead reflect on what was the outcome.
jerichothebard
First Post
WisdomLikeSilence said:
Two scrolls of cure light wounds, in a form that the humans couldn't possibly recognize, don't really count for much in my book. Even if the humans were able to read them, they still won't regenerate an ear or a finger.
Personally, given the existance and acceptance of slavery as an institution, I would argue that, in exchange for the unprovoked and un-recompensed mutilation of innocent humans, selling the children into slavery is a bit harsh, but not out of bounds. This isn't a nation, I would imagine, with an organized federal prison system, and I don't imagine the more frontier style "eye-for-an-eye" style of justice would be accepted by the elves any more so than the slavery. So, what else are we left with? Execution? Yeah, that'll go over well. A slap on the wrist? The humans will never go for that. What else you got? Slavery or conscription into an army, which is basically slavery + a death sentance.
I'm still not seeing it. If I presented my players with this dilemma, they would probably go ballistic and open up the keg of PC whoop-ass on the Shesher.
All that being said, I give major props to Reyu's player for keeping a strong character line - choices like that are both hard and memorable. Excellent work.
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