D&D 5E (2014) Well played WOTC (or Free RPG Day 2015)

[justinj3x3]

Indeed. I'm one of them. But there's a difference between wanting more from WotC and criticising them for producing nothing.



You're probably not going to like this, but... Dragon+ is the thing we're getting from WotC directly. Well, that and the Unearthed Arcana, Sage Advice and whatever other columns they produce.

For whatever reason, they seem to have decided that their printed RPG products will be written by contracted companies - Kobold Press, Sasquatch, and now Green Ronin.

But I really don't see how that's a big deal - companies use outside contractors all the time, and it's always been very common within the RPG industry and indeed from WotC. Indeed, Ed Greenwood has apparently never actually been an employee of TSR or WotC, but has rather always been freelance - does that in any way reduce the validity of Forgotten Realms?

I am not criticising them. If I were I'd be criticising Hasbro. But I'm not. What I'm doing is saying fans are allowed to be disappointed they didn't see anything from WOTC on Free RPG Day. Am I saying WOTC is bad or wrong for not providing anything, no. I'm saying I understand why some fans are feeling let down because of seeming lack of support (emphasis on 'seeming'. We know they arent in the office sitting on their hands.). It's about the company image. Some people want to see a company being a leader and a presence in the industry, not some old man behind the curtain.

And you are right I don't agree that Dragon + is a product. It is not something physical that I can buy in a store, just like the web articles, nor is it much more than a big advertisement.

 

[Umbran]

Ok. What matters here is there are CLEARLY fans who want to see that WOTC plan to actively support the new edition beyond an outsourced hardcover AP every few months.

Still sidestepping the question - why is "outsourced" relevant? You (and the class of fans you claim to speak for) apparently think that outsourced content is somehow lesser than in-house content. Why?

If they pick a good author for the content, and make sure it is high quality, what does the detail of the employment relationship with WotC matter? "I think this content is less good/valid... for tax reasons?"

There are some fans, not ALL fans, but some fans who have reservations because of WOTC tight-lipped attitude about their plans and goals.

I find I have little sympathy for that. We act like we own D&D, and that WotC owes us information on their stewardship. I am not convinced this is appropriate. WotC does not owe us a description of the plans and goals. Paying for a set of rules does not entitle us to a picture of the brand roadmap.

We should be happy when a company does give us business information, but we shouldn't start acting like major stockholders that can demand it.

Seeing something, ANYTHING, from WOTC directly would ease SOME players concerns. It would simply be a gesture of good will on behalf of WOTC to the fans. A show of good faith. Actions speaking louder than words.

"Good faith"? Faith in what? They publish a game and related content. We occasionally buy the content they produce, when we like it. When we don't, we carry on playing the game, or not. What "faith" is required here? You speak as if the relationship is something more than producer-consumer, without having established that fact, and the nature of the relationship, first.

I'm simply saying if people are disappointed they have a right to their feelings and they aren't ENTIRELY unfounded.

I am not worried about whether they are "unfounded". I think whether they are properly justified could be put to some debate.

 

[delericho]

What I'm doing is saying fans are allowed to be disappointed they didn't see anything from WOTC on Free RPG Day.

Which is certainly fair.

And you are right I don't agree that Dragon + is a product. It is not something physical that I can buy in a store, just like the web articles, nor is it much more than a big advertisement.

It's fair to say I'm not a fan of Dragon+. Though in an era of digital downloads, I think your definition of 'product' will need updated - the Elemental Evil player's guide may not count as a product, but presumably something like this would?

 

[justinj3x3]

I am not worried about whether they are "unfounded"? I think whether they are properly justified could be put to some debate.

And who are you to dictate whether someones feelings are justified? People feel how they feel. Feelings are not a logical thing you can measure and dictate.

I've already explained my view in regards to the rest. I'm not going to go round and round with you.

 

[justinj3x3]

Which is certainly fair.



It's fair to say I'm not a fan of Dragon+. Though in an era of digital downloads, I think your definition of 'product' will need updated - the Elemental Evil player's guide may not count as a product, but presumably something like this would?

Yeah the print-on-demand is a grey area for sure. The ONLY reason I exclude that is general people can't walk into a store and discover the product or pick it up as an impulse buy.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Its cool to be a Paizo fanboy, they are a well-run company full of great people. But if we're going to compare numbers, Paizo had 45,000 downloads of the Pathfinder beta. WotC had over 170,000 downloads of the 5e playtest. Its not even close. WotC even had higher numbers of paying DDI subscribers for 4e than that. As late as 2013, DDI still had 81,000 subscribers bringing in around $500k a month. Good money, just not the $50 mil a year, that Hasbro was looking for.

Now now now let's not try and spin this.

You know as well as I do that signing up and downloading mean nothing beyond those two words.

This has nothing to do with fan boys. Pathfinder had over 100,000 contributions to the playtest which means a lot more than just 175,000 people signing up and downloading the first playtest packet. They never ever released how many people physically took all the surveys and contributed to the playtest. If you are going to throw information around then please make sure you go into full detail about everything.

 

[Tony Vargas]

"Good faith"? Faith in what? They publish a game and related content.

Faith in the hobby that the original edition of that game kicked off. A legacy that WotC trades on every time they release a D&D product.

 

[Shasarak]

Still sidestepping the question - why is "outsourced" relevant? You (and the class of fans you claim to speak for) apparently think that outsourced content is somehow lesser than in-house content. Why?

Mainly because contractors and free-lancers may not care as much about the product as "official" staff.

 

[Staffan]

Mainly because contractors and free-lancers may not care as much about the product as "official" staff.

Tell that to Ed Greenwood and Keith Baker.

That said, apparently (from what I learned last time we had this discussion), the outsourcing of Tyranny of Dragons and Princes of the Apocalypse went a bit beyond traditional freelance contracts. But I still think it's a difference of degree, not of kind.

 

[Shasarak]

Tell that to Ed Greenwood and Keith Baker.

That said, apparently (from what I learned last time we had this discussion), the outsourcing of Tyranny of Dragons and Princes of the Apocalypse went a bit beyond traditional freelance contracts. But I still think it's a difference of degree, not of kind.

I will see your Ed Greenwood and Keith Baker and raise you a Project: Morning Star.