We're All Gamers Together: Why Harassment Has To Stop

Another piece talking about the harassment of women in tabletop gaming has surfaced on the internet. At least one of the incidents related in that piece has been substantiated as being true, so I am willing to accept that there is more truth in that article. Whether gamers, or geeks in general, want to admit it or not, there are serious issues within our communities with how people act towards women, people of color, and the LGBTQI. We need to knock that off right now. Obviously, this is an opinion piece.

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Another piece talking about the harassment of women in tabletop gaming has surfaced on the internet. At least one of the incidents related in that piece has been substantiated as being true, so I am willing to accept that there is more truth in that article. Whether gamers, or geeks in general, want to admit it or not, there are serious issues within our communities with how people act towards women, people of color, and the LGBTQI. We need to knock that off right now. Obviously, this is an opinion piece.
Just as a warning, for those who might be bothered by certain sorts of content, some of the incidents that were relayed to me, the stories that were told, have jarring, uncomfortable occurrences in them. If mentions of rape and unsolicitated physical contact will bother you, you might want to skip the rest of this article. I know reading the emails and PMs from these women bothered me as they came in.

As much as what these women related bothered me, and obviously bothered them as the targets of the harassment, I felt that the fact that it was so uncomfortable was exactly the reason why this current piece needed to be written. We, as a group, need to start looking the people doing this harassment in the eye and telling them that we don’t think it is okay. We need to stop pushing these accounts into the shadows, under the rugs, and pretending that they do not exist. We need to make our communities into better places for everyone, and not just a bunch of men.

I put out a call over my various social media feeds (which was shared a lot), asking for women to share their experiences of harassment in tabletop gaming with me. Anonymity was offered to those who wanted it, and not surprisingly most respondents asked that their names be kept confidential. The reasons for them wanting to be kept anonymous were one of two. First, they were afraid of further harassment within their communities for calling out the bad behavior. They seen how women who tell men to stop get treated in small, closed communities and, for better or worse, they want to continue with their hobbies without additional harassment. The second reason was a bit scarier. Some of these women are professionals, working in tabletop gaming in a number of different capacities, who fear that publicly coming forward would negatively impact their careers within gaming.

I’ll just say that last one again, with emphasis: they were afraid that coming forward about their harassment, or the harassment that they had witnessed, would negatively impact their careers in tabletop gaming.

Because of these reasons, I will be keeping the identities of everyone who asked anonymous. Everyone who spoke with me identified themselves, I am just not identifying them.

One of the common threads through the experiences shared was rape. Most of these women had had characters raped during convention play, online games, or at events at stores. Sometimes the rapes were matter-of-factly introduced into play, others there was a titillating level of graphic detail to the assaults. One women talked about how a regular attendee at a local convention bragged of having a “rape kit” in his car for the women at the convention, and at one point he yelled at her to “find him women to sleep with.” She also talked about the organizers of the convention having a “men only camping retreat” and when she was on the board of the con the only way that she could attend was “nude and wearing a dog collar.” Another woman talked about the GM of her online game suddenly having her character knocked unconscious, taken away on a ship, and then graphically narrated raping her character. All of this occurred on voice chat while using a popular virtual tabletop site.

Another woman told me that her attempts at organizing a couple of women only games for a VTT online convention was met with such vehemence from male gamers that the games were pulled from the schedule of the convention.

People wonder why more and more people think that anti-harassment policies are needed at conventions. After all, even Gen Con has one:
Gen Con: The Best Four Days in Gaming! is dedicated to providing a harassment-free Event experience for everyone, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, or affiliation. We do not tolerate harassment of convention participants in any form. Convention participants violating these rules may be sanctioned or expelled without refund at the discretion of show management.

And an Ethics policy:

All of the following constitute grounds for expulsion from the convention without refund:
  • Violating any federal, state, or local laws, facility rules or convention policies
  • Failure to comply with the instructions of Gen Con Event Staff or security personnel
  • Using anything in a threatening or destructive manner against person or property
  • Endangering the safety of oneself or others
  • Threatening, stealing, cheating or harassing others
  • Failure to conduct oneself in a mature manner

The creators of the 13th Age RPG have anti-harassment policies for their organized play because “Nobody shows up for a game with the goal of feeling uncomfortable or unsafe, and sorry that they came. But organized play brings together many different types of people with different expectations and approaches to play. An anti-harassment policy sets ground rules that everyone can recognize and follow, resulting in better games and more fun.” In the policy they outline harassment as “Everyone has the right to a space that is safe from any type of harassment: physical, verbal, emotional, or sexual.”

Honestly, considering the experiences that have been related to me, these sorts of policies should be commonplace for conventions and organized play. I have heard that Paizo is currently drafting an anti-harassment policy for their organized play, and Ad Astra Games has one in place already.

These are some of the more overt things that women have to deal with in their tabletop gaming experiences, and doesn’t go into the more “casual” or systemic harassment and sexism that women deal with at conventions, in online play and at game stores. One of the women talked about women being a subclass in society, and it being more so in gaming communities. “It sucks for a female gamer, going into a store and having that reaction.”

Men are openly commenting on women’s body parts in a sexual manner. Sexual content is added to games because “that’s the kind of stuff that women like.” Crude sexual references and jokes are made.

I’m not saying that there is no place for sexual, or adult themes, in gaming. Just the opposite, in fact. In my personal groups I game with grownups, and we play games that can have adult material in them. We have, however, agreed that content like that is okay in advance, and most of the time we agree that players’ agency over their characters should not be railroaded by the story of the game, or the actions of the GM. There is a huge difference between making awkward sexual comments out of the blue, because you are hoping it will interest a woman gamer, and making awkward sexual comments that people expect in their game. This goes doubly so for games in public spaces, like conventions or stores.

And just because it is okay with your wife, girlfriend or the woman in your gaming group at home, that doesn’t mean that it is okay with all women. If it makes someone at the table uncomfortable, or makes them feel like they are being harassed, just don’t do it, or apologize for having done it.

And, of course, none of them are safe from accusations of being a “fake geek girl,” or being in the store to get something for their husband or boyfriend. Apparently the idea that a woman would want to buy her own dice or miniatures or rule books is alien to some gamers.

As Jon Peterson, author of Playing at the World, points out in an online essay, there have always been gender problems in tabletop gaming. But he also points out that women have been interested in tabletop gaming for a long time. But, just because something has “always been that way,” it does not mean that it has to stay that way. Even in the 1970s TSR Games employees were taken to task by fandom, and female designers, to be more respectful of women gamers and to stop using phrases like “ladygamers.” Sadly, these attitudes that were considered to be outdated back then are still being perpetuated now…in some cases by some of the same people.

My first AD&D group, back in 1979, had a woman for the GM, and about half of the group were women. Most of my groups since then have had women involved in them. We need to be better, as a community, about these things. We need to speak out when we see women being harassed, online or in person, and we need to tell the people who think that doing this is okay that it isn’t. We need to be active in making the change that creates better communities where we don’t have to worry about our friends being harassed because of their gender, or their sexual preferences, or their ethnicity. We have to convince conventions and organized play societies that having anti-harassment policies is a good thing, and enforcing them so that everyone feels welcomed and accepted is a better thing.

Guys, we have to remember that this isn’t about us. This isn’t about our perceptions of what is happening at conventions, during organized play events and in online games. We sit back, listen and ask what we need to do, rather than try to make the discussion about how it “isn’t all men.” We already know that. We need to not take the focus away from what needs to be done.

There are never going to be completely safe spaces, in gaming or outside of it. However, we can make better places where no one has to worry about their body parts being part of the table talk, or their characters being sexually violated. It is the 21st century, and we should be better about this than we are. We need to stop being quiet, stop facilitating harassment, and we need to start making better spaces for ourselves and our fellow gamers. A group, like nerds, that talk so much about being harassed in their youth for being different should really be more sensitive about harassing others. We can, as a group, be better about this, and we need to do it.
 

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Elf Witch

First Post
Yep, but that won't sit well with the people who are for sending men home even if they aren't guilty. They aren't going to want something as simple as separation. That's why I suggested the alternative of sending both of them home.

So the harasser wins. Because if the policy is to send anyone who complains about being groped or harassed home without proof then they will simply not report it. And the people doing the harassment will just keep it on the down low. Here is why this really makes me angry the person being harassed is not doing anything other than attending the event they have done nothing wrong so why should they be punished for reporting someone bothering them?

I am not for just throwing anyone out with evidence and I keep repeating that if that was happening we would hear about it. Most of the people running con security are volunteers they don't want trouble and most cons with anti harassment policies but them in place so people could not claim they were unaware of the rules. The thing is I would rather see an innocent person kicked out of a con then a true victim doubly punished first by being harassed then kicked out for reporting it. But like I said in most of the cases where there is no evidence other than she said or he said no one gets kicked out they get a warning. No system is perfect but this seems the most reasonable way to handle this.

It absolutely is. The confusion will arise because you try and lump in sexual harassment and being made to feel uncomfortable. Lets say I tell me wife a "kitchen joke" and someone over hears it. They claim it makes them feel uncomfortable.

And as others have pointed out, this isn't just about females. Lets say I make a comment about a monster fight "Man that adult red dragon fight was insane." Someone hears it, and their relative has mental issues, and they claim that feel uncomfortable with me using that language.

Someone grabbed you or told you something overtly sexual/racist/whatever. Yea that's bad and that's the sort of behavior we need to stop. But how far does it go? At a tech convention one guy made a "donger" joke to a friend, a woman over heard it and got the guy fired. Instances like that, trying to police speech to that extent, will turn into a political discussion. It already has.

Please stop just stop with this nonsense I am well aware of many in social justice who push this but that is not what anti harassment polices at cons are about. They are not about people getting upset over hearing something that was not directed at them personally. I don't know any con committee or the people who run this who feel this way. The anti harassment policies is to stop people from directly harassing another con goer. That can touching them following them around and staring at them and they continue to do so when asked to stop. It can be catcalling sexual comments, racist comments or just mean comments.

I find a lot of people in social justice to be extreme on some of their ideas and I find people like you just as extreme you are all so busy trying to defend your positions that you make up these extreme examples of what might happen if we try and stop harassment.

I did read the article. The writer, in addition to claiming so many incidents that are simply not believable (seriously, she asserts that every time she called the police, she was dismissed. And that when she was 13, an entire store chanted "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" at her.), says outright that the entire gaming community is guilty, but especially the men, referring to them as, "cowards at best, terrorists at worst" and stating the exact words, "Gamers are OK with harassment and terrorism, or else they would have stopped it."

The writer did not claim that they all happened to her but that they were things she witnessed working at a game store and being around gamers.

I know you find that part offensive but it is how it looks when there is open harassment and no one steps up and stops it. Do you believe that every white person in the South who stood by and watched as black and white protesters were dragged out and beaten simply for demanding service in a restaurant were racists? I would say a lot were but I am sur some were afraid but if yo were one of the people being dragged and beaten in front of people who did nothing you might think they supported what was happening.

It's amazing. In Christopher Helton's article he mentions a group of women who wanted a woman only table top campaign and were harassed because of it... But when a guy wants to keep his group guys only, he's part of the problem mentioned in the very same article that mentioned the group of women wanting the exact same thing.

Sigh are you so clueless about how privilege works that you don't understand the issue with this. The majority of gamers are men so there will always be able to find a table with just men. Women are in the minority and offering them a chance to play at a table for just women is something that rarely happens. The issue with saying well men should be able to say they want just men to be fair is that since they are the majority by doing that it may be impossible for female players to find a table at all. I have no issue if at your home game that you want just male players. Hopefully one day there will be more female players and then this won't be an issue .

I'm not sure how you could be confused when the article cited in the text is "Tabletop gaming has a White Male Terrorist problem", and is a Tumblr article, not an actual piece of journalism or research. This article has pretty much nothing to do with "Harrasment at cons is bad and we should do what we can to minimize it" and is completely another social justice warrior article, a purely political piece with 0 actual research and 0 credibility. In fact, the utter irony is, this whole article and the one it links to is racist and sexist in the extreme. If I replace "White Male" with any other race or the opposite sex I'm sure I'll get an insta-ban.

There's no agenda here to minimize sexual harassment, if there actually was concern about minimizing sexual harassment then the basis of the article wouldn't be an article sexually harassing half the population and adding in racism to boot.

So I'll ask again, is ENWorld a site for RPG news and discussion or is ENWorld a political site that has aligned itself with the social justice warrior party? I come to this site to read RPG news and RPG discussion, if this site is going to be about political commentary on gaming then please let me know so I can find a different site to enjoy RPG news and discussion without the very intense drama that the social justice warrior politics invariably brings.

Did you read the OP post? He said he read the blog and then asked people to comment on if they had experiences of harassment and he had around 3000 answers and that is what he was posting about. But hey deny the issue because you are upset over a title of one blog and ignore the bigger issue here.
 

Obryn

Hero
I'll let them speak for themselves but I know of at least 3 or 4 people who have no issue what so ever wanting this conversation to continue focusing on race, gender and whatever else.

But yes I do agree with you... While I've always taken note of poor behavior I'll certainly start to speak to others about it as well. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but my community down here around the Baton Rouge area is pretty tame. Still, its not a bad message to spread around. There's no downside to growing a hobby so long as everyone is respectful.

Here's the thing, though. The conversation *has* to focus on gender. Race maybe not as much, but definitely, totally gender.

That's what I'm saying. You can't get to the end goal of a safer, more welcoming hobby without talking about it.
 


Obryn

Hero
I quoted you as saying it. You claimed that game systems are now insisting that their players to adopt alternative lifestyles. I'm asking you to name one, and show us that insistence.
*Paranoia doesn't count.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
 

Taneras

First Post
Except, again, to reiterate -- It is one specific group which is doing the harassing.

Likewise, worldwide looking at violent terrorist attacks, its mostly Muslims doing it. Same goes for crime and black males between 25-35, and the same goes for women and child abuse. Are you ok with those? If you are, then fine, swing away at the white male table toppers who are mostly responsible for the harassment. If you're not ok with the afformentioned connections, stop being a hypocrite.

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Of those houses, which one would be the harassment at conventions and which one would be the treatment of women in some Middle Eastern countries where they aren't allowed to vote, be educated, drive, and instances of stoning and them being raped are quite literally a daily occurrence?

This fallacy was brought up and dispelled earlier. You can address multiple problems at the same time, you don't have to devote your entire life to only addressing the worst possible problem society faces without caring about anything else. Please don't use it again.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Looking through the FBI's list I have to wonder how they're defining terrorism. Some of the charges listed in their report are as minor as "attempted vandalism" and "tree spiking". You'll have to excuse me, and I'm not trying to minimize property owners who's property has been vandalized or had their trees killed, but I wouldn't label that as terrorism. At least not in the category serious enough to be in the same conversation as mass shootings and bombings.

Looking world wide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

I challenge anyone to find a group who has even half of the number of attacks listed in the last 5 years. Hell, even one fourth of the attacks listed within the last 5 years.



And I'd bet its using the same watered down methods as the FBI.



The number games work both ways, either to overvalue or devalue depending on what narrative a specific group or person wants to push. If you dig far enough you can usually find numbers that are reliable enough to paint a picture and you're correct, black males between 15-35 do account for a huge amount of crime. Reasons and causes aside, people generally don't approve of lumping most blacks into a group, calling them thugs and gangsters, then telling the blacks who get upset at the broad stoke comparisons to focus more on reducing crime instead of getting upset most of your group is being lumped in together.



Citation please, because if its anything like the FBI report its very misleading.

This article from Newsweek noting the predominance of white, right-wing terrorists in the USA cites- among others, the SPLC and Arie Perliger, the director of terrorism studies at the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/...ger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html

Here's one from Time:
http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

The NY Times talks about the results of a survey of several hundred law enforcement agencies done with the Police Executive Research Foundation. Right wing extremism was the #1 concern. Besides more supporting numbers garnished from Perliger's work, the article also states:

Other data sets, using different definitions of political violence, tell comparable stories. The Global Terrorism Database maintained by the Start Center at the University of Maryland includes 65 attacks in the United States associated with right-wing ideologies and 24 by Muslim extremists since 9/11. The International Security Program at the New America Foundation identifies 39 fatalities from “non-jihadist” homegrown extremists and 26 fatalities from “jihadist” extremists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/opinion/the-other-terror-threat.html?_r=0

As for Europe? Well, Loonwatch used Europol's data- the resulting aggregate over several years of terror research was this:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

****

I'm not debating that men are largely behind violent crimes, only that you can extend this generalized trend quite far and include groups that people will try and make exception for (as you just did). Again, even females aren't immune, being the overwhelmingly vast majority of child abuse offenders.
While I haven't looked at the gender demographics at all, I wouldn't be surprised to find women were more likely to be child abusers than men. They still do the majority of child care, as both family members and professionals in child day care & babysitting. That translates into a huge statistical slant in opportunity.
 

GMSkarka

Explorer
Are you ok with those? If you are, then fine, swing away at the white male table toppers who are mostly responsible for the harassment. If you're not ok with the afformentioned connections, stop being a hypocrite.

Except it's been shown to you that's not true -- via FBI stats which you then waved off as somehow not good enough. You've decided it's true, and that's all that matters, apparently.


Of those houses, which one would be the harassment at conventions and which one would be the treatment of women in some Middle Eastern countries where they aren't allowed to vote, be educated, drive, and instances of stoning and them being raped are quite literally a daily occurrence?

This fallacy was brought up and dispelled earlier. You can address multiple problems at the same time, you don't have to devote your entire life to only addressing the worst possible problem society faces without caring about anything else. Please don't use it again.

One of those issues occurs in far-off lands where I've never travelled and have no plans to. One of those issues occurs in MY WORKPLACE. Which of those problems should I be expending energy to address?


I'm not going to kid myself that the above argument will sway you in any way, and since the owner of the site has taken the brave moral stance of "everybody should be nice, whether they're trying to address harassment in the community, or whether they're vehemently denying it exists and belittling the topic", I'll just take this as a reminder of why so many people avoid gaming sites online, and bow out myself.
 

Elf Witch

First Post
1st, People these days especially some in gaming many not have the level of social skills that con organizers expect. It it wise to have a basic fair policy for the occasional problem.

That policy must assume innocent until proven guilty. Just because a "gamer gurrl" says so doesn't make the creepy guy the problem. Facts only.

When someone is a problem, kick them out. Best policy, talk first if too serious refund any remaining days and send them packing.

Make sure everything is in writing upfront and you are in compliance with the law though less you find said "problem" has a nasty lawyer.

2nd For people who think that the culture wars are settled or won, not even. They are just getting started and I suspect that round two will surprise people with the ferocity of its push-back. I'd really prefer if this tiny hobby could stay Sweden or Switzerland myself. It won't, you may not be interested in the culture wars but they are interested in you.

3rd I've gamed with and around a lot of women, I suspect that while harassment happens occasionally its pretty rare and its more caused by the social awkwardness of a few gamers than malice.

Most of them time, people tend to be polite around the ladies.

When people make mistakes at a con or elsewhere in a public venue don't be too shy to stop and talk to them, explain the issue. Odds are they'll fix it and they might just appreciate it.

4th Consider the source of such accusations or this accusation and what axe they have to grind especially. Anyone who uses racist speech as an as an opener is doing it wrong .If we are going to abide by speech codes than everyone is. Its not Animal Farm here, some animals and genders are not more equal than others.

5th The idea of this hobby is too have fun and nothing else. Other goals, inclusiveness or diversity or the constant pounding of ideological drums however worthy they may be often degrade the fun as much as alleged harassment. Don't allow this to happen.

By all means check bad behaviors but check all behaviors whether harassment or sh*t stirring. We need a fun placed to play where the conference attendees can't enjoy themselves without the egg shell walking that makes up "inclusiveness and diversity"

Doesn't mean we shouldn't be polite but if an exaggerated code of niceness tales away people's fun so a few can have a safe place, Its not worth it.

6th And last, for you home game. Don't hesitate to screen people. Its harder at a con but you should do this at home. My own game does.

Don't be inclusive, be exclusive. It makes for far better gaming experience.

The hobby has changed and the days when gamers were pretty much alike is gone. This isn't racial mind you but the Left/Right gap has infected the hobby as it has the culture. Its sad that we are not "all gamers together" any more but not much can be done for that.


A personal opinion,the intensification of the culture wars has not been good for our hobby. Not that many years ago, I could assume pretty much all gamers were alike and I'd had gamed with really ethnically diverse groups with differing opinions on everything, incompatible religions and so on. We were all gamers together

That's gone and the level of rancor has increased enough that a lot more screening and refusal is the norm, if only to keep peace at the table. If people cannot be tolerant of speech than they have to be homogeneous. Its sad, I've enjoyed the unique pleasure that actual diversity without the eggshell walking and worrying about bringing offense or someone getting sued or false claims or any of that.

This “one weird trick” that brings us together seems like clickbait now and its sad.

And in case anyone asks, it won't come back till the culture wars end and as Ice T famously rapped “Our war won't end till all wars cease.”

You realize that it is not just Gamer gurrl as you call us complain about being harassed so have people of color and LGBTQ people. This is not just about women it is about protecting everyone right to not be harassed at an event and that includes straight white guys as well.



If someone reports a case of harassment then it is the duty of the people to address it. If they have no evidence because no one saw it then they can warn the person to stay away from the person making the complaint and keep a closer eye on him.

I am really tired of the excuse that harassers don't know better and are socially awkward. I used to be shy and socially awkward but I knew touching someone without their permission was wrong I knew calling out nasty things to them was wrong and I knew that when someone asked me to stop bothering them that I should.

So being inclusive and accepting diversity in our hobby is ruing the fun? So darn those women and minorities for wanting to be included in the fun and maybe if people would just allow them to have fun too without bullying there would be no need to beat on the drum.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
My post upthread about gaming being a "boys-only club" was referencing the hobby as a whole, not specific gaming groups.

Most gaming groups I've been a part of have been all white men. It wasn't necessarily a stated goal, just how things worked out as most of my gaming friends are white guys and of course, statistically, most gamers are white guys. The few times I've gamed with people of color, women, and/or LGBQT have been a welcome respite usually.

If I heard that a female friend was forming a women's only gaming group, I would applaud. If another friend was forming an all black gaming group, or an all queer gaming group, I would again applaud them for trying to make the hobby their own.

If I had one of my white guy friends say, "Hey, let's form a new gaming group, no women allowed!" I would say, "No thanks." And while I would respect that friends right to game with who he pleases, my opinion of him as a person would drop to the bottom of the ocean, we probably wouldn't be friends much longer.

I hope that someday in the distant future, an all women group, an all minority group, or an all queer group would be just as weird as an all white guys group, but that day is not today.

Why is there no "White History Month" indeed.
 

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