We're Going To Do Return to the Tomb of Horrors and One Player has Freaked Out!

[WizarDru]

Funny that you mention that: that is almost exactly how Lord Robilar made it through the original Tomb of Horrors . . .
[That is, HE PLAYED SMARTLY!]

And, by playing smartly you mean he was Lawful Evil, which is what he is normally classified as, although his creator maintains he was Lawful Neutral.

Some folks would enjoy that form of purely tactical puzzle-solving play...my players would screech murder. That way leads to the 10' pole test. The Horror. THE HORROR.

 

[Henry]

Frankly, I'd invest in a wand of summoning and have a kobold walk through every door and touch every object first.

Confident with the SINGLE wand, are ya?

*Henry looks down at his belt with his fifty wands of summoning, waterskin of Prozac, and gun with single bullet*

I'm ready. Send me in.

 

[Henry]

There's a difference between, "It is very, very important that my character do X, and while doing so, he may die," and "It is very, very important that my character do one of the following 4 things, and if I do the last, he absolutely will die before he can attempt the other three."

Yeah, but when he's finished those first three, he's coming back for that last one? Right? Right?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yeah, but when he's finished those first three, he's coming back for that last one? Right? Right?

Oh, absolutely. At that point, you've reached the end of the campaign. Might as well end it, right?

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

You know how a lot of people hype things up to make them sound a lot worse than they are?

We're not doing that.

Yes, actually, you are doing that.

RttToH is a tough module, but not unbeatable. The 2e party I DMed for, back in '99, took the thing out coming off of a high-level Planescape campaign... admittedly they were five twinked-out 18th-20th level PC's with Cohorts wielding practically everything from the Forgotten Realms Books o' Brokenness, enchanted firearms, and a few artifacts... and they had their way with the whole Return...

I practically felt sorry of old Acererak... building that dungeon, only to have it massacred by a Dweomerkeeper with a Staff of the Magi, a Cavalier/Enchanter, a Fighter/Necromancer with a +5 Musket and a vorpal sword, and a Crusader of Torm with a holy avenger... not to mention the Sworddancer, Fighter/Shadowmage/Assassin, Paladin-Inquisitor, and Ninja cohorts following them around... so yes, a completely twinked-out party of high school obsessives wielding the entire Player's option series CAN take out the Return to the Tomb of Horrors, even with a rather cruel DM running it.

Mere mortals, however... I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[billd91]

This is an interesting discussion. I think modules like ToH and RttToH are best played as one-shots because they generally don't fit into a regular campaign very well (being essentially lethal TPK exercises).

What I find most interesting is the sorcerer-player's attachment to his character and how other people are responding to it. I've always found it curious that some players become super attached to their D&D characters and afraid of them dying even though there are numerous ways of coming back from the dead with relatively little fuss. Contrast that with CoC players who lose investigators at substantial rates or even Paranoia players who are positively gleeful at kicking the bucket.

I have 2 theories to describe that behavior:
1) D&D characters tend to exist in longer campaigns that foster attachment, while CoC characters are expected to die and/or go insane at any given moment. And Paranoia, well, there's a reason commie mutant traitors like yourself are given 6 clones each...

2) D&D, being the most successful RPG since "House" and "Cops and Robbers", has the broadest collection of players and thus naturally includes the inevitable players who create and look at their PCs as a sort of avatar of themselves or some aspect of their personalities that they have or wish they had. Thus, they get really attached to the character. I think closely related to this type of player is the wannabe-writer... someone who really wants to write good stories because they think they are really creative but who doesn't have time or real skill at doing so and therefore spends an inordinate amout of time crafting their PC and their backstory.
Other games, appealing to narrower gaming interests or not being as widely published, naturally get fewer of these types of players.

I think both of my theories have counter arguments since you do see D&D-character attachment even in short-term campaigns and there are players who get attached to a wide cross variety of D&D characters that have no relation to their own personalities, dreams, desires, or creative writing outlets. But every once in a while I have to reflect on this issue.

 

[jasper]

Either step up to the door and roll the dice or go home and read your Big Little Book collection.
Henry you can game at my table anytime.

 

[WizarDru]

I have 2 theories to describe that behavior:

I think you need more theories.

I don't think it's unusual for someone who's put a few years worth of weekly time, for example, to feel a little irritated when his character, who he's carefully and skillfully raised from 1st level is thrown into a module with a reputation for being gleefully mean when it comes to not just killing, but utterly, irreversably obliterating characters.

That's swell for some characters you made for the game specifically for that module, or dandy if you enjoy that kind of play (such as seen in (contact's) story hour, for example)...but some folks aren't thrilled to hear that all the work is being tossed to the winds for a save-or-die festival of doom. It can be lots of fun, but only with the right players or mindset.

The player might be thinking: "I though I was playing in a Conan world, where life is dangerous, not a Clive Barker world were life is imminently close to being over....why'd he bother having any sort of story at all, if he's going to just toss us down a blender and hit the puree button?"

 

[Grue]

RttToH solidified Bruce Cordell as my favorite game author. I've played it and run it once apiece and it definitely brought me back to when I first started playing as a kid.

The general difficulty of the RttToH has been discussed before on the boards... it's a thinking man's dungeon, etc... offhand I can think of at least one epic level cr encounter that will be nigh impossible to spoof without killing the critter (and it's not Acererak himself). Unless your dm really cuts down the power level or just eliminates some of the encounters in his conversion (though doing either I think would definitely take away something from the feel), I probably wouldn't attempt this one until you hit 17th level or so under 3.5e.

Having the freaked out player use a one shot character would be the simpliest solution. Though this might remove from the atmosphere somewhat. After all, the player isn't 'anteing up' and has nothing to lose if they make a bad decision or the party flubs a combat (most of the fights in this one can be circumvented though). That being said, this one is rewarding to play (though significantly less if you can't finish it or do it with 'temp' characters).

 

[Henry]

First of all, I want to say let's not go too far into bashing other people for what they want to or not want to do with their characters. I said what I would do, not what everyone should do.

I don't think it's unusual for someone who's put a few years worth of weekly time, for example, to feel a little irritated when his character, who he's carefully and skillfully raised from 1st level is thrown into a module with a reputation for being gleefully mean when it comes to not just killing, but utterly, irreversably obliterating characters.

I think it comes from the "emotional kick" each person gets out of playing. Me, I'm more of a sociable gamer, and it shows in my play. I'm not afraid to play a character to the point of stupidity if the situation calls for it - if my PC is brash, I act brash. If I want to play a cautious guy, he'll still get the job done - but no rushing in planless, and such.

In the end, I don't play to get a powerful or well-developed character - I play because I get to have fun with friends, and whatever level the character is at is a means to that end. Just like I wouldn't have fun playing a 5th level character in the Tomb, I play the 15th level guy because he stands a chance - a glimmer of a chance, but it's there.

Some people enjoy slowly and carefully building a character - telling their story, or making the ultimate death engine, or the ultimate diplomat, etc. Others just want to kick butt without having theirs handed to them, and some don't like it if there are too few options in-game.

Me, I'm there to play. I'll have fun if my character is irrevocably lost, and I'll have fun if he comes home loaded with riches and no worse for wear.

I've always found it curious that some players become super attached to their D&D characters and afraid of them dying even though there are numerous ways of coming back from the dead with relatively little fuss.

If I remember correctly, the Return to the Tomb AIN'T that kinda place. It's. well, a grinder for the unlucky or unprepared. There are some situations where the PC just loses their life; others where the PC loses their soul, and still others where the PC WISHES they could die.

Hand me the Prozac and the +5 Holy Avenger, Bill - I'm goin' in!