D&D 5E (2024) What’s the difference between sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards?

You're still trying to preserve or make a difference between Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks to justify their existence as classes, which is not the approach that I would take.
They're all plenty popular classes with unique storytelling niches and lengthy enough histories in the game. There's no burning desire to merge them and any attempt to will be met with pretty strong resistance due to said storytelling niches
 

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They are separate classes because, even if we consider their core themes not that different for argument's sake, they all lend themselves to a large number of subclasses based on their core thematic concept, which is important in the 5e class structure. Wizards get themed around schools or traditions of magic, sorcerers around various ways they could have innately inherited power, and Warlocks around whomever they swore a pact with. If you tried to lump all the fairly obvious concepts for types of arcanists into one class it would need an incredible number of subclasses in several major groupings, and one would certainly struggle to dream up a comparable amount of stong subclass concepts for Barbarians or what not.

Now of course if the publisher did not care about one class clearly being more important with more subclasses than the others this wouldn't be a big issue, but they seem to dig symmetry.

Sorcerer and Warlock subclass thematics are very similar. It is just whether the thing was a patron or an ancestor. I don't think we need to have different classes and subclasses for demonpact/demonblood, feypact/feyblood dragonpact/dragonblood etc. Thematically it is a caster with that flavour of magic. And the fluff distinction between sorcerer and warlock is basically non-existent. Sorcerer actually does no need to be born with magic like many people seem to thing, they can be bestowed with magic later in life by a powerful entity just like a warlock. 2014 PHB:

"Some sorcerers can’t name the origin of their
power, while others trace it to strange events in their
own lives. The touch of a demon, the blessing of a
dryad at a baby’s birth
, or a taste o f the water from
a mysterious spring might spark the gift of sorcery.
So too might the gift of a deity of magic, exposure
to the elemental forces o f the Inner Planes or the
maddening chaos of Limbo, or a glimpse into the
inner workings of reality."

"Most often, sorcerers with this origin trace their descent
back to a mighty sorcerer of ancient times who made a
bargain with a dragon
or who might even have claimed
a dragon parent."
 

I know there’s a bit of a mechanical difference between them in how the cast, slots, sorcery points, spell lists, etc.

I know there’s a membrane-thin fluff difference between them in one is born to power, one trades for power, and one studies for power. But that has effectively zero impact on the mechanics or actually playing one of the three.

But is that all? Even over a decade in to 5E and they just read like excuses to include different casting mechanics.

So fans of these three classes, besides the mechanics, what’s the draw?
There are four pathways to power.

Earned power: you studied, you labored, you put in the time.
Inherited power: your physiology, or your inheritance, confer power upon you.
Inflicted power: power sought you, rather than the other way around.
Purchased power: You literally paid something to receive it.

Inflicted power is rare in D&D (the Invoker is one of the only classes to ever address it), but Wizard, Sorcerer, and Warlock are neatly covering the other three. Those are worthy archetypes to explore. Those are meaningful, tangible, compelling stories people want to talk about.

Consider Harry Potter. Hermione is a nothing; her parents are muggles, she has no existing standing within the magical world. And yet she rises to become not just one of the greatest witches of her time, but Minister for Magic, and a young Minister for Magic at that. She earned her power, every last bit of it.

Harry, on the other hand, has both inherited and inflicted power. He is--through no fault of his own--marked by Voldemort, becoming his prophesied destroyer. He gains all sorts of weird abilities because his soul and Voldemort's have connected. The world both bends to him and pursues him ruthlessly. But he also inherits an enormous fortune, and his parents are famous for having died opposing the Dark Lord. He represents both archetypes. (One could also argue that Ron represents inherited power, but his family is explicitly poor, despite being one of the ancient wizarding families, so he doesn't really fit the paradigm, and the story addresses this.)

But Draco Malfoy? He'd be a nobody without his family's money. The Malfoys aren't strong enough nor (whatever Lucius might argue) smart enough nor skilled enough to be famous. They would be background nobodies if they weren't wealthy, with nearly all of their clout deriving from that wealth and the connections it opens. Crabbe and Goyle would never have been Malfoy's friends if he came from a family background as poor as the Weasleys, and he might've actually been a decent sort without that corrupting influence.

Purchased power is almost always presented as suspect in some way, even if the person who purchased it is actually the hero of the story. There, it's usually portrayed in terms that verge on inflicted power, but extra nasty because the infliction is a sapient deal-maker who is often outright evil or literally Satan.

This is why these things won't die. This is why people keep coming back, time after time after time after time, wanting to make them work, wanting to make them different, flipping switches and turning dials and otherwise rejiggering things. Because these four pathways are all worth telling stories about, so people feel compelled to make them pathways worth playing by game rules.

Because that's what TTRPGs do. They allow us gameplay by roleplaying, and they allow us roleplay by gaming. No other game can achieve this--not even computer RPGs.
 

Sorcerer and Warlock subclass thematics are very similar. It is just whether the thing was a patron or an ancestor. I don't think we need to have different classes and subclasses for demonpact/demonblood, feypact/feyblood dragonpact/dragonblood etc. Thematically it is a caster with that flavour of magic. And the fluff distinction between sorcerer and warlock is basically non-existent. Sorcerer actually does no need to be born with magic like many people seem to thing, they can be bestowed with magic later in life by a powerful entity just like a warlock. 2014 PHB:

"Some sorcerers can’t name the origin of their
power, while others trace it to strange events in their
own lives. The touch of a demon, the blessing of a
dryad at a baby’s birth
, or a taste o f the water from
a mysterious spring might spark the gift of sorcery.
So too might the gift of a deity of magic, exposure
to the elemental forces o f the Inner Planes or the
maddening chaos of Limbo, or a glimpse into the
inner workings of reality."

"Most often, sorcerers with this origin trace their descent
back to a mighty sorcerer of ancient times who made a
bargain with a dragon
or who might even have claimed
a dragon parent."
Inheritance vs purchase will always be different stories, and thus people will want mechanics which express that difference.

That you can squint and pretend the two are the same does not suddenly quench the bone-deep intuition that the two stories are, in fact, different.
 

They're all plenty popular classes with unique storytelling niches and lengthy enough histories in the game. There's no burning desire to merge them and any attempt to will be met with pretty strong resistance due to said storytelling niches
Taps the sign:
To be clear, I don't think that "rethinking the need for these classes" necessarily should equate to "they should all be one class." I have said time and time again that I would prefer classes built around clearer themes, archetypes, and playstyles that are easier for new players to identify. You can have multiple mage archetypes, but give them something with more meat, fat, and flavor.
👆
 

Inheritance vs purchase will always be different stories, and thus people will want mechanics which express that difference.

That you can squint and pretend the two are the same does not suddenly quench the bone-deep intuition that the two stories are, in fact, different.

You can have different stories just fine. You don't need different mechanics for that. Mechanics represent how things function. A magic sword works the same, regardless of whether you inherited or bought it. And in your HP example, the magic of all those characters works in similar way and in a D&D-like game I would definitely expect them all to be of the same class. (Though I really wish people would just stop referring to that particular franchise altogether, and I do not want to discuss the example further.)
 

Sorcerer actually does no need to be born with magic like many people seem to thing, they can be bestowed with magic later in life by a powerful entity just like a warlock.
Not necessarily. A character who becomes bestowed with magic later in life could be the result of someone's latent sorcerous ability emerging. As a result, the character decides to multiclass into the sorcerer class sometime after 1st level.
 

Taps the sign:

👆
okay, so what do you actually consider 'meat fat and flavour' in regards to mage archetypes and differentiating them? because when i just tried you said i was only "trying to preserve or make a difference between Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks to justify their existence as classes"
 

Not necessarily. A character who becomes bestowed with magic later in life could be the result of someone's latent sorcerous ability emerging. As a result, the character decides to multiclass into the sorcerer class sometime after 1st level.
no, they're saying the books says some sorcerers start with literally no latent magical spark at all at birth, but before their first sorcerer level they attain that spark by being gifted or touched by some magical creature or phenomenon.
 

no, they're saying the books says some sorcerers start with literally no latent magical spark at all at birth, but before their first sorcerer level attain magic by being gifted or touched by some magical creature or phenomenon.
It depends on which book you're looking at and how it influenced you from that point on. The 3e PHB says this, the 5e PHB says that. Which book are you referencing?
 

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