D&D 5E (2024) What’s the difference between sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards?

[Crimson Longinus]

no, they're saying the books says some sorcerers start with literally no latent magical spark at all at birth, but before their first sorcerer level they attain that spark by being gifted or touched by some magical creature or phenomenon.

Which sounds exactly like a warlock.

 

[Aldarc]

okay, so what do you actually consider 'meat fat and flavour' in regards to mage archetypes and differentiating them? because when i just tried you said i was only "trying to preserve or make a difference between Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks to justify their existence as classes"

Something more along the lines of this right here, on this post of mine that you liked, as re-posted here for your convenience:

Building on an earlier post, I would potentially consider a setup like this for the full-casters:

• Arcanist (arcane/order): astral, mana, time, gravity, sigils, etc.
• Warlock (shadow): necromancy, shadow, void, dark arts, blood, etc.
• Mystic (mental): mind magic, illusions, enchantment, psionics, etc.
• Druid (nature): animals, plants, weather, land, etc.
• Elementalist (primal/chaos): air, earth, fire, water, etc.
• Cleric (divine): holy, healing, buffing, abjuration, etc.

I would also consider just flat-out giving the players the ability to choose their primary ability casting score for the class, possibly from a list of two out of the three choices: e.g., Cleric (Wisdom or Charisma), Mystic (Intelligence or Wisdom), Warlock (Intelligence or Charisma), etc. However, once you pick it, the casting attribute stays the same for that class.

The idea here is that aesthetics, themes, and clear archetypes matter. Playstyles should also be important (and clear) for these classes.

 

[CreamCloud0]

It depends on which book you're looking at and how it influenced you from that point on. The 3e PHB says this, the 5e PHB says that. Which book are you referencing?

5e

 

[Corinnguard]

Sorcerer - DND 5th Edition

dnd5e.wikidot.com

Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer.

Wizard- chooses to wield the power while experimenting on what magic can do.
Warlock- chooses to wield the power bestowed upon them through a pact made with an otherworldly entity.
Sorcerer- Born with the power but has the choice to either use or not use it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Something more along the lines of this right here, on this post of mine that you liked, as re-posted here for your convenience:

The idea here is that aesthetics, themes, and clear archetypes matter. Playstyles should also be important (and clear) for these classes.

I liked that post for its latter half about being able to pick primary ability score for your class, it is a shame ENworld doesn’t allow more nuance in its post reactions but I fear any system which did would be overly complicated.

 

[Aldarc]

I liked that post for its latter half about being able to pick primary ability score for your class, it is a shame ENworld doesn’t allow more nuance in its post reactions but I fear any system which did would be overly complicated.

Regardless, you should be familiar with the post and what I would be proposing, and it's not the status quo.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Which sounds exactly like a warlock.

Similar yes, but not the same, the spark is gifted in a one-time interaction without ongoing terms or connection, it’s the difference between jumpstarting a stranger’s car engine and giving them a vehicle that they have to get refuelled and serviced specifically by you

 

[CreamCloud0]

Regardless, you should be familiar with the post and what I would be proposing, and it's not the status quo.

basically you believe there should be magic school segregation between the casters, never shall there be a divine soul sorcerer, a trickery cleric of enchantment and illusion, or a druid of spirits and bone.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You can have different stories just fine. You don't need different mechanics for that.

"Need" is irrelevant. Necessity is never a reasonable standard, because we are talking about a leisure-time activity.

Nothing in D&D is a "need". It is, always, an elective choice. And this elective choice exists for a clear reason: because people want mechanics to have a story, and story to indicate mechanics.

Mechanics represent how things function.

They do!

And they also do other things too.

Otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten the complaint--I no longer remember who said it, but it was recently--that the little text blurbs at the top of every 4e power were inadequate.

A magic sword works the same, regardless of whether you inherited or bought it.

But personal supernatural power need not--for the same reason that money inherited need not work the same way as money earned through labor need not work the same way as money discovered need not work the same way as--etc.

Your analogy went wrong the moment you tied it to an external physical object. Magical power is not always external, is rarely 100% physical, and isn't an object.

And in your HP example, the magic of all those characters works in similar way and in a D&D-like game I would definitely expect them all to be of the same class. (Though I really wish people would just stop referring to that particular franchise altogether, and I do not want to discuss the example further.)

My point was simply to note the themes. None of them are being differentiated by how their magic works because Harry Potter is an obfuscated "Magic A" Is "Magic A" setting.

D&D is different. Different kinds of magic actually do work differently. Being granted power by exchange is actually, observably different from having power because it's literally in your physiological makeup. Many folks like this difference being represented in mechanics, because it means the mechanics have an innate story.

 

[Aldarc]

basically you believe there should be magic school segregation between the casters, never shall there be a divine soul sorcerer, a trickery cleric of enchantment and illusion, or a druid of spirits and bone.

You are welcome to respectfully ask what I believe, and I will gladly give clarification. That arrangement would likely be more cordial than you telling me what I believe.

That said, I respectfully reject the framework of your point here that presumes the status quo of classes and subclasses. Any time you make changes to a game in terms of classes and such, you gain and lose conceptual design space. There are always trade-offs, that includes for 5e D&D. A lot of the various subclasses that you mention exist for the purpose of exploring the design space of the current classes in D&D. Likewise, the current setup of classes in D&D do in fact box out other potential classes, subclasses, and concepts. That would also be true for the setup that I have proposed. There will be new design space created and lost. I'm under no delusions otherwise. But that's also why I reject the framework of your point here. It's technically not a loaded question, but it's close enough in practice.

Moreover, you are talking here about subclasses. I am talking about base classes and their themes/aesthetics. I have said nothing about subclasses and what sorts of possibilities exist in this design space.