What 4e does right
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Tav_Behemoth
First Post
I agree with the OP that the concept of attacks vs. different defenses are a simple and intuitive way to resolve conflict. It's easy for everyone to agree that a fear spell or a sanity-blasting apparition is an attack vs. Will, while a poison or a stinking cloud spell is an attack vs. Fort.
I like DMG p. 42; it's great to see explicit guidelines for "how do you resolve things on the fly?"
I like the way that the math of magic items has been simplified from 3E and made easier to strip out so that you could run a low-magic game (or one in which magic items are common but dangerous and unpredictable, like many early-edition games). Previous editions hid this away - 3E's Vow of Poverty rules or the distribution of magic items as treasure in the random charts of TSR editions - and thus made this design element harder to examine and change.
I like DMG p. 42; it's great to see explicit guidelines for "how do you resolve things on the fly?"
I like the way that the math of magic items has been simplified from 3E and made easier to strip out so that you could run a low-magic game (or one in which magic items are common but dangerous and unpredictable, like many early-edition games). Previous editions hid this away - 3E's Vow of Poverty rules or the distribution of magic items as treasure in the random charts of TSR editions - and thus made this design element harder to examine and change.
cmbarona
First Post
I have to agree with almost everything mentioned above, particularly:
This leads to a drastic reduction in PC-screwing-over-rule proliferation, like negative levels. Speaking of: Rust monsters? Great compensation in my book.
Also, related to balance between PCs, I love that they redefined vanican magic. I guarantee it's just because my original RPG backgrounds were in other systems (Vampire: the Masquerade and Shadowrun, specifically), but it never made sense to me that Wizards weren't able to cast Magic Missile at-will like they finally can.
- Useful PCs at all levels
- Balance of power between PCs
- Ritual Magic available to almost everyone
- Minions!
- Passive checks which serve as a defense-like skill
- Speaking of, making FRW defenses
- Monster-specific rules, which:
- Make the DM's job easier, especially with:
- Digital tools
This leads to a drastic reduction in PC-screwing-over-rule proliferation, like negative levels. Speaking of: Rust monsters? Great compensation in my book.
Also, related to balance between PCs, I love that they redefined vanican magic. I guarantee it's just because my original RPG backgrounds were in other systems (Vampire: the Masquerade and Shadowrun, specifically), but it never made sense to me that Wizards weren't able to cast Magic Missile at-will like they finally can.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
There are some ideas in 4e that I like.
Rituals - I'm not too keen on breaking off combat vs non-combat magic into powers vs rituals, but breaking out some magical effects based on long casting time compared to short is an idea I like. If I were to adapt this to 3e, I'd be really tempted to design rituals with full effects and then make a spell version with short casting time that provides a partial effect of the ritual. I'd do something like the arcane lock ritual and a hold portal version as a spell in the normal spell progression.
Encounter powers - For martial characters particularly, I think the idea's a pretty good one. But I really don't much like 4e's implementation of these and how they don't really relate at all to dailies. Again, like with rituals, I'd design fighting styles or special maneuvers and give each one an encounter level and a daily level. The player picks which to use in combat at the time. This way, his dailies are at least related to the combat style he portrays in most of his other fights, it's just that the circumstances were right so that his practiced trick happened to do really well.
Treasure parcels - I like the idea of thinking in these terms when it comes to generating a fairly balanced, yet easy to build, loot pile. I'm not so keen on the way they "teleport" around to ensure that the parcels all get picked up. I just like the organizational structure in building reasonable rewards (that then stay put once I've placed them).
Free-form special maneuvers - Picking an attack stat and picking a reasonable defense is a good idea, but with all the effort in trying to balance the math around primary attacks vs NPC defenses, I think people will find that this won't work that well for any attack stat that isn't the PC's primary attack. Here, it's not the special maneuver idea, it's the other stuff going on with math balancing that messes it up. With the premium put on optimizing the primary attack stat(s) for powers, and defenses set to keep up with those, the other potential attack stats just won't keep up.
Stat bonuses - Ranged attacks getting Dex bonus for damage - good idea.
Rituals - I'm not too keen on breaking off combat vs non-combat magic into powers vs rituals, but breaking out some magical effects based on long casting time compared to short is an idea I like. If I were to adapt this to 3e, I'd be really tempted to design rituals with full effects and then make a spell version with short casting time that provides a partial effect of the ritual. I'd do something like the arcane lock ritual and a hold portal version as a spell in the normal spell progression.
Encounter powers - For martial characters particularly, I think the idea's a pretty good one. But I really don't much like 4e's implementation of these and how they don't really relate at all to dailies. Again, like with rituals, I'd design fighting styles or special maneuvers and give each one an encounter level and a daily level. The player picks which to use in combat at the time. This way, his dailies are at least related to the combat style he portrays in most of his other fights, it's just that the circumstances were right so that his practiced trick happened to do really well.
Treasure parcels - I like the idea of thinking in these terms when it comes to generating a fairly balanced, yet easy to build, loot pile. I'm not so keen on the way they "teleport" around to ensure that the parcels all get picked up. I just like the organizational structure in building reasonable rewards (that then stay put once I've placed them).
Free-form special maneuvers - Picking an attack stat and picking a reasonable defense is a good idea, but with all the effort in trying to balance the math around primary attacks vs NPC defenses, I think people will find that this won't work that well for any attack stat that isn't the PC's primary attack. Here, it's not the special maneuver idea, it's the other stuff going on with math balancing that messes it up. With the premium put on optimizing the primary attack stat(s) for powers, and defenses set to keep up with those, the other potential attack stats just won't keep up.
Stat bonuses - Ranged attacks getting Dex bonus for damage - good idea.
tyrlaan
Explorer
Things I definitely like:
- The online support: Between the Character Builder, DDI, etc. the level of support for this edition is just very, very nice.
- Everything is a defense: Turning saves around so they are defense scores is a very welcome change. Makes things vastly more consistent. I was working on an OGL game where I did this, so now I'm using 4e as my base since WotC did it for me
- One "BAB" progression: This seriously makes life easier for everyone. It also gets rid of the painful 3e experience of trying to multiclass out of or into a spellcasting class.
- Class balance: 'nuff said. People have covered this nicely already.
- Non-divine healing: The even further abstraction of hit points opens a lot of interesting doors that 4e is not afraid to walk through.
- Friend to DMs everywhere: Simplified encounter design, monster building, NPC building, software aids. Need I go on?
- Rituals: Love the concept, not sure I'm convinced opening them up to all classes was the best move.
- Paragon Paths: I like them, but sometimes there just isn't one that fits a specific character. Or what if you just want to be more like your class and not really specialize?
keterys
First Post
They actually don't teleport around. I know some people play it that way, though, but figure it's worth pointing out all the same.
I mostly fit into the above responses, for individual details, but the biggest things for me:
As a DM, it's streamlined so much to make it easier for me.
As a player, everyone has interesting options.
P.S. Lot of respect to the folks not playing 4e who nonetheless posted with the parts they liked about it.
Encounter Design - It is much easier to design encounters now, and also to make them interesting. I also like that a normal encounter can easily include a large number of enemies.
Dual Stats to Defenses - I think it's excellent that only one of each pair goes to the defenses. It leads to a smaller range of defenses, which makes the game more consistent.
Rituals - It's already been mentioned, but bears repeating, as I think it is one of the best concepts of 4e. Decoupling out of combat magic from combat magic means that spellcasters no longer need to decide whether to have utility spells or combat spells, they can have both. The fact that ritual caster is a feat means that you can have a character with some knowledge of magic and a few spells without having them be an actual spellcaster.
Consistent Over All Level - Extending the sweet spot out was a huge benefit.
Character Competence/Ease of Entry - A new player following a few basic guidelines will create a character that will contribute to the group.
Roles - It is nice that the classes are each designed to fill a niche in the party. There are a wide variety of options to fill a given role, and each class has its own unique spin on how to fill the role.
Dual Stats to Defenses - I think it's excellent that only one of each pair goes to the defenses. It leads to a smaller range of defenses, which makes the game more consistent.
Rituals - It's already been mentioned, but bears repeating, as I think it is one of the best concepts of 4e. Decoupling out of combat magic from combat magic means that spellcasters no longer need to decide whether to have utility spells or combat spells, they can have both. The fact that ritual caster is a feat means that you can have a character with some knowledge of magic and a few spells without having them be an actual spellcaster.
Consistent Over All Level - Extending the sweet spot out was a huge benefit.
Character Competence/Ease of Entry - A new player following a few basic guidelines will create a character that will contribute to the group.
Roles - It is nice that the classes are each designed to fill a niche in the party. There are a wide variety of options to fill a given role, and each class has its own unique spin on how to fill the role.
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Aus_Snow
First Post
Hi, my name's Aus_Snow, and 4e isn't my game of choice! 
Eh, there's some more stuff I wrote last time this one came around. Dunno where it went. Some thread, somewhere. . .
- Multi-page art, some it quite pretty. Something Paizo seems to view as good, too.
- Points of Light. This gives D&D focus, 'sexes it up' a bit, makes explicit what was - to some extent - not so, all in all basically spotlighting adventuring with all its inherent danger as the base from which to work. This is smart. And very Iron Heroes. . .
- Probably balancing the basic classes more than ever before.
- Skill Challenges (straight from 3e's Unearthed Arcana, more or less!) Nice to have an option other than just one skill roll, hardwired in there, for some situations.
- Defences based off multiple abilities. Well, the better of two, in each case, IIRC. This (or a variant on the same basic idea, actually) is what I did with 3e, funnily enough. So yes, this is an improvement, anyhow (IMO) - each and every ability can do something useful for any character, kinda. More or less. Also. . .
- More balanced Defences. 'Saves' that don't end up stupidly high and/or stupidly low, just 'cause the system allows that kind o' malarkey.
- Less prep time for DMs. I'll take this one on faith. And if it's true, well, that's gotta be a good thing, right?
- Something for everyone to do. At any time, I mean. Now, this one can be argued back and forth all kinds of ways, but basically, for systems as 'tight' as 3e and 4e (f'rex) it's a good idea for there to be codified means for PCs to be effective, in at least most situations they might find themselves in.
- Page 42. Good idea - again, for such a codified system.
Eh, there's some more stuff I wrote last time this one came around. Dunno where it went. Some thread, somewhere. . .
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