What 5e got wrong

[TheWriterFantastic™]

Well, this was one of those .... things. The RAW in the strength table gave the various percentile strength limits for races.

Fun fact- humans had the highest possible strength at 18/00, even though 1/2 orcs had the strength modifier (+1). 1/2 orcs maxed out at 18/99. GYGAX!!!!!

Of course, the whole percentile system was hard to reconcile with the 19-25 abilities you could get with certain magic items. But you managed. Or you just cross-referenced some tables, and then through your hands up in the air, like you just don't care.

It also helped that PC strength scores were still capped at 18, before rolling for Exceptional Strength: scores of 19-25 were outliers to the norm, with assistance from rare items, and not attainable outside of magical assistance. The 19-25 range for scores wasn't even housed in the core books, not appearing until Deities & Demigods, and was solely intended for statting those titular beings, still not PCs.

 

[Nagol]

I already did. They present the bell curve. They state that you can create the character using the 3d6 system. They then present four *alternatives* to the 3d6 system. (DMG, p. 11) It says "3d6." I don't think this is a point worth belaboring, since we have both quoted the relevant sections. Your methods, which you used to say someone was just wrong, were not the sole methods. They are explicitly listed as alternatives to the 3d6 system. Hole, digging.

I assume you're referring to page 11 of the 1e DMG. That's the only place where the bell curve pictured that I know of. It is an illustration of how probability changes when rolling more than one die.

3d6 in order is not a recommended method. There is an explicit recommendation against using it in fact. There are 4 methods detailed on page 11 that are substantially more generous.

The closest to a default system is Method I: 4d6 drop lowest, player chooses where to place.

 

[lowkey13]

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[Nagol]

Resurrection is a 7th level cleric spell. In Resurrection, the following text is included: See raise dead for limitations on what persons can be raised. (p. 53, PHB). Do you wish to guess what limitations there are? Again, hole, digging.

Technically, elves can be resurrected, just not with the spell. I direct you to the awesomely useful Rod of Resurrection

 

[lowkey13]

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[lowkey13]

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[Nagol]

Agreed. But the magic item powers often differed substantially from the powers granted by spell- which is why the Rod of Resurrection even had the "even Elves" disclaimer, and required additional charges for its use.*

As a side note, no one ever explained why the Rod would work when the rationale behind the whole "spell not working" was the spirit/soul divide, but, you know, Gygax.

*To move this back to 5e, one of the things I like about 5e is that they don't have wildly different powers from different sources that, supposedly, accomplish the same things. Trouble with 1e, and Gygax specifically, is that he would write versions of things that were incompatible with each other. For example, a 30th cleric couldn't cast raise dead or resurrect on an elf because of the spirit/soul, but a 1st cleric could use a rod as if they were high enough level to cast resurrect to bring back an elf, because ... something something.

That spirit/soul bugged me enough I built a rationale for the whole planar system to account for it. It informed a bunch of campaign situations over the years, but none of my players ever tried to peek behind the covers to take advantage of it.

The rod thing gets really weird when you realise a cleric who can make the rod still can't resurrect an elf with a spell.

 

[Nagol]

No, you don't have to assume I'm talking about p. 11 of the DMG, since I cited it. That's what we've been talking about. And the bell curve for 3d6 isn't on page 11, it's on page 10. And method 1 isn't the default method, but, as I indicated, it was Gygax's preferred method - not from p. 11, but from appendix P.

Good?

I figured he used method I in Appendix P because it was fastest with the least bookkeeping. The other methods have you rolling 6 or 12 times as often.

 

[lowkey13]

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[The Crimson Binome]

Fun fact- humans had the highest possible strength at 18/00, even though 1/2 orcs had the strength modifier (+1). 1/2 orcs maxed out at 18/99. GYGAX!!!!!

I kept looking for something to invalidate this admittedly-cheesy tactic, but I didn't find anything in the books I had access to. Are you sure that 99 wasn't the maximum for exceptional Strength, with 19 being non-exceptional and thus perfectly allowed?

I mean, there were a lot of books and I wouldn't be surprised if they contradicted each other in places, but I know that I created a half-orc with Strength 19 when I tried to play Baldur's Gate.