What abilities are abusable if reusable?

[shilsen]

Maybe it is not spelled out specifically for Invocation, but generelly, if the same spell (or spellike ability) gives a bonus, it doesn't stack (but overlap). (So, Multiple Healing and Damage spells "stack", but a spell that gives a +6 bonus to breaking doors would not). I am lazy, so I count on someone else to point out the reference in the PHB (for spell effects) or the Complete Arcane.

*grumble, grumble, damn lazy chancellors of UU, grumble, grumble*

Pg.171-172 of the PHB, under "Combining Magical Effects"

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

*grumble, grumble, damn lazy chancellors of UU, grumble, grumble*

Pg.171-172 of the PHB, under "Combining Magical Effects"

In my role as the member of the faculty I probably should have said "The proof is left as an excercise for the reader". []

To my list, I would add (even if it seems obvious):
Damaging effects are fine if they allow for some kind of defense like AC or Saving Throw and if they deal not more damage than a comparable weapon attack. If it is an area, consider that it will probably affect more than one target and calculate damage accordingly.

 

[Remathilis]

Charms, Compulsions, and Dominations. At will charming is GOING to be abused, no matter if all your PLAYERS have the souls of a paladin...

 

[jmucchiello]

I think there's a difference between abilities that are abusive and abilities that result in differing campaign defaults. Being able to fly at will is not abusive, it merely means that you cannot present situations to the players assuming they are ground-bound and expect to challenge them. I don't find any movement powers to be abusive, they result in different stories. Likewise, divination is almost meaningless in a kick butt campaign and abusive in a campaign geared toward mysteries.

Ultimately, you cannot balance one ability against another if those abilities do not share a domain space: combat abilities vs movement abilities vs charm/beguiling etc. Should transforming rock to mud be worth more or less then a DC 16-18 Will save to charm any monster? The answer is dependent on what you want your game to feel like. Canon D&D says Charm Monster is a lesser spell than Transform Rock to Mud. Is rock to mud really more powerful? Who's to say?

Charms, Compulsions, and Dominations. At will charming is GOING to be abused, no matter if all your PLAYERS have the souls of a paladin...

Again, not if the campaign world is aware of how cheap such effects are. Magic items that prevent Enchantments would be extremely common in a world where every apprentice can cast charm person. Heck, high level sorcerers can already cast charm person 20+ times a day, do they dominate (pun not intended) your campaigns?

I see the potential for a lot of sidebars in this book.

In a campaign that involves a wilderness trek through difficult regions (deserts, swamps, etc) running out of (edible) food or drinkable water should be a concern....<snip>

At the risk of derailing, if it really bothers you, you can say that a particular region, desert say, has a -10 circumstance modifier to all Survival rolls. Incorporate Knowledge (nature) as a aid another roll.

Your example somewhat illustrates what I'm saying. For some people your mode of playing out wilderness survival is tedious and wrong-headed. For them, the game is about heroic exploits, not tracking small game in a desert. For you, the story must play out at the table and part of that story is sneaking up on small lizards in a desert. Create Food and Water is a 3rd level spell so the default assumption of the game is that survival checks for food are meaningless after 5th level. This is probably why the DC is so low.

 

[Nareau]

What exactly constitutes abuse? I would suggest that any effect that can be repurposed to do something unintended (or world-changing) would fall into this category. I would actually argue that healing magic would not.
Create Water could flood a nation, Animate Dead could raise an army, Transmute Rock to Mud could level mountains.

<hijack>

He'd Detect Thoughts on them to see if they were suspicious. Then begin charming them all and using Detect Thoughts to see if it works.

The "problems" you list are due to the DM not following the RAW:

Both spells allow a will save. If someone succeeds, they know a magical effect was just used on them. Furthermore, Detect Thoughts has both Verbal and Somatic components; it should be obvious that she's casting spells on them.

Alter Self only grants a +10 to your disguise check. Since he was changing her race that's a -2 on his check. The 2nd in command should be at least "associates," granting them a +6 to their spot check.
</hijack>

Spider

 

[Rystil Arden]

What exactly constitutes abuse? I would suggest that any effect that can be repurposed to do something unintended (or world-changing) would fall into this category. I would actually argue that healing magic would not.
Create Water could flood a nation, Animate Dead could raise an army, Transmute Rock to Mud could level mountains.

Healing at will constitutes abuse because if you can heal at will, you can easily build a party that is at 100% power all the time and never ever stops to rest. Also, Animate Dead at will at least is expensive and quickly hits a cap for what you can control. Now, if you're an insanely evil warlock who has the invocation with no material component and you just want to create a mindless horde not under your control, yeah, you can do that

 

[painandgreed]

Alter Self only grants a +10 to your disguise check. Since he was changing her race that's a -2 on his check. The 2nd in command should be at least "associates," granting them a +6 to their spot check.

This may be true, I garentee that his diguise, bluff, and other CHA based skills were well into the obsene. Also, Detect Thoughts and Charm Monster were spell like abilites and thus have "no verbal, somatic, or material component".

 

[Victim]

Spell likes don't have components, but the concentration required is visible. And once someone makes a save, they can recognize that someone tried to mess with their mind.

 

[AuraSeer]

Something I've always wondered about is the Beguiling Influence warlock invocation from Complete Arcane. It gives a +6 bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate for 24 hours, but the bonus is untyped, which means it stacks with itself.

That's not correct. Bonuses from the same source don't stack, unless the source specifically says otherwise. If you cast the same buff on yourself a million times, all those castings overlap, even if the bonuses are untyped.