D&D 5E What about D&D 5e levels 21-30?

[LordEntrails]

Its not a language thing. What I can do is create my own version of a d&d 5e high level handbook and then just share it online for free. Its not about money for me, but I am sure it is for Hasbro and their stockholders. By the way it really should be for levels 21-40, which can be easily done.

Let us know when you make it available, I look forward to seeing it.

 

[Dausuul]

Its not a language thing. What I can do is create my own version of a d&d 5e high level handbook and then just share it online for free. Its not about money for me, but I am sure it is for Hasbro and their stockholders. By the way it really should be for levels 21-40, which can be easily done.

Not only can you do that, somebody already did. In fact, several somebodies. Here's the most popular one on the DM's Guild, complete with levels 21-40, as requested: Epic Level Characters level 21-40 - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

If you're right, one of those should be rocketing up the popularity list. At the moment, however, none of the 5E Epic books is cracking the top 50. By contrast, "Killer Kobolds from Outer Space" is #29.

 

[Zardnaar]

Level 21+ is probably 1% of the market, 5,% tops and I suspect that is generous.

1% is probably generous.

 

[LordEntrails]

Not only can you do that, somebody already did. In fact, several somebodies. Here's the most popular one on the DM's Guild, complete with levels 21-40, as requested: Epic Level Characters level 21-40 - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

If you're right, one of those should be rocketing up the popularity list. At the moment, however, none of the 5E Epic books is cracking the top 50. By contrast, "Killer Kobolds from Outer Space" is #29.

Yep, and for reference, that resource is Electrum, which means it has sold between 251 and 500 copies, at a suggest price of $0.50. So the author has made somewhere in the $250 range. WotC would be lucky to use that pay the salary of a designer for a day. Not surprising they haven't made any official Epic level resource. (Yes, we all know a WotC product would sell 100 times what a Guild product would.)

 

[Upper_Krust]

howdy epic master UK

Hey dave matey!

IDK, I seem to remember some pretty epic multi-page 4e stat blocks you made.

Haha. I dunno, even though I have multi-page entries for characters like Asmodeus, his actual stat block was never more than 1 page and any other pages were for minions, his realm. layer and so forth.

I may have done a multi-page stat block somewhere but I can't remember.

If a remember correctly mortals are 4 dimensional, but can only perceive and Immortald at 5th dimensional and can perceive 4 dimensions. However, I don’t understand how this helps with a place in the cosmos and “minions” and “mooks”

Well for instance if we create something more powerful than an Ancient Red Dragon how can we justify its ecology in the 'real' world (where are they - why haven't we seen them before)...likewise if we have some race more powerful than the Demons - how can we justify them living in the Abyss. By tying a creature to a dimension we don't need to establish its ecology among the universe as we understand it.

I don’t believe I said it was a 5 cr difference in epic ranks. I actually have figured that out yet as they are independent of each other. One of the points is that you can have different CRs within the same epic rank

I only had a quick glance. I was considering tying Divine Rank to Proficiency Bonus. Therefore +7 = Demigod, +8 Lesser God, +9 Inter, +10* Greater, +11 Elder God, +12 Overgod and above etc.

*Hypothetical.

Looking at CRs though and a +5 seems about twice as powerful, +8 triple and +10 quadruple.

 

[dave2008]

Haha. I dunno, even though I have multi-page entries for characters like Asmodeus, his actual stat block was never more than 1 page and any other pages were for minions, his realm. layer and so forth.

I may have done a multi-page stat block somewhere but I can't remember.

True, I seem to remember multi-stage monster that had multiple pages, but each page was its own stat blocks though. Regardless, I agree in general. It just can't be avoided in a few instances.

Well for instance if we create something more powerful than an Ancient Red Dragon how can we justify its ecology in the 'real' world (where are they - why haven't we seen them before)...likewise if we have some race more powerful than the Demons - how can we justify them living in the Abyss. By tying a creature to a dimension we don't need to establish its ecology among the universe as we understand it.

OK, that makes sense now. Thank you for clarifying! Not my plan, but an interesting idea.

I only had a quick glance. I was considering tying Divine Rank to Proficiency Bonus. Therefore +7 = Demigod, +8 Lesser God, +9 Inter, +10* Greater, +11 Elder God, +12 Overgod and above etc.

*Hypothetical.

Looking at CRs though and a +5 seems about twice as powerful, +8 triple and +10 quadruple.

OK, I get it now. I am tying proficiency bonus to epic level, but epic rank is different (but possibly related - I'm still working on that). I am currently still using CR, but I might drop it completely for epic level creatures as the numbers get a bit ridiculous

 

[Stalker0]

I've never really understood the need for Epic level adventures, I mean 20th level is already so crazy powerful. I mean the party literally starts their day plane shifting into any area they want, and basically can just curb stomp and geniuely high encounter.

I did a 20th level run where the party fought through Asmodeus' lair, and killed him. It was an incredibly epic adventure, I honestly couldn't imagine how to go any "bigger".

So in other words, 20th level is already so over the top, what more is really needed? I think the Epic Boons add enough little extra if you want to push it, but that's really way more than you ever need.

 

[S'mon]

I've never really understood the need for Epic level adventures, I mean 20th level is already so crazy powerful. I mean the party literally starts their day plane shifting into any area they want, and basically can just curb stomp and geniuely high encounter.

Haven't really seen this with my own Epic-20 PC group (Druid-20 Paladin-20 Rogue-20 (arcane trickster) Barbarian-20), maybe because they are light on arcane casting.

Edit: I use 'book' monster stats, albeit I may edit them a bit. Unlike in 3e/PF, PCs don't tend to become invincible in 5e. Though my group have the Sihedron, a super-artifact which certainly helps!

 

[dave2008]

I've never really understood the need for Epic level adventures, I mean 20th level is already so crazy powerful. I mean the party literally starts their day plane shifting into any area they want, and basically can just curb stomp and geniuely high encounter.

I did a 20th level run where the party fought through Asmodeus' lair, and killed him. It was an incredibly epic adventure, I honestly couldn't imagine how to go any "bigger".

So in other words, 20th level is already so over the top, what more is really needed? I think the Epic Boons add enough little extra if you want to push it, but that's really way more than you ever need.

The game can be played that way; however, in my game what you described just wouldn't be possible. Mortal PCs, even lvl 20 ones simply can't do the things you suggest. We do more mundane things in our lvl 1-20 games.

For us, the official stats for Tiamat, the Demon Lords, & the Archdevils are just shadows of their true power. To challenge them in their home plane takes something beyond what is possible for mortals, even heroes. For instance, Tiamat is, in our campaign, more the 10x as powerful than the stat block listed in RoT. 20th level PCs can't handle that.

Now, I personally am not in favor of simple adding 10-20 more levels for mortals. I am interested in ascending the to Immortals. Then, they just might be able to challenge Asmodeus - after about a billion years to increase their strength of course.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I'm kinda surprised every offering on DM's Guild is going the 21-30 + level route, and no one has developed an 'epic boons' supplement (E20), considering that's the "official" way.
I'm also kinda sad it doesn't look like you'll be developing it, Dave, with the new direction you're taking your epic work (pun intended).