What are some alternate ways to think about archetypes?

[Reynard]

I guess I am not being very clear. I am talking about ways to define and/or differentiate characters by something other than what they DO. The Fate Accelerated use of approaches is a good one, though: I can imagine making the TMNT, all of whom are martial artists, distinct by way of their approaches.

 

[kronovan]

I prefer Archetypes that are defined by cultures or regions. As an example, I'm currently queuing up a SWADE campaign from a prewritten setting, and the archetypes for it are built upon cultures, regions and even factions. The archetypes for sure entail an occupation, but for a number the cultures is every bit, if not more important. From a few tests builds, they've proven to work well at differentiated PCs, which is important for this TTRPG, as player's PCs without some GM nudging can fall victim to the "same-eness" factor. This particular group of players have little experience with the rules & necessity means they have to build their PCs on their own. So having solid Archetypes is good.

There's also a few archetypes that are defined by religion/faith or cult, which are interesting. The 1 caveat is that archetypes are based upon Seasoned rank (about level 5 D&D) PCs - I prefer PCs coming up through the lowest ranks too.

 

[Blue]

One thought is "Who do you want to become?" or it's close cousin "Why do you do what you do?"

Picture archetypes like The Righteous Hero, The Devout, Seeker of Knowledge, Reformed Zealot and the like. Not that give D&D-like class features, but maybe that give you ways to create the meta-currency that fuels features you can pick a la cart.. The Devout isn't locked into cleric or paladin type character. Her strength of belief keeps her on her feet when others would drop or other options. Robin Hood could be a Righteous Hero who has archery and banditry features. And it's outsmarting the tyrant Sheriff that inspires him, giving him the meta-currency to boost those.

Which also means you can tailor the expectations of the players simply by what's included. If there's a Lone Wolf sort of archetype, that's not just giving permission to play that type of character but saying it's one of the big six or ten or however many you have. Exclude it though and it's at best a character trait, not a defining feature.

 

[Blue]

Another thought is that archetypes that can represent the types of issues and hazards the players are interested in exploring, though that is a godsend with some GMing styles and a showstopper for some others.

If you're playing "The Rebel", that means there's something that you want to be rebelling against, some machine against which to rage. "The Unfettered" might have great power in their chosen directive but little control, like a wild mage or a barbarian.

Am I on the right track for the types of things your looking for?

 

[payn]

I guess I am not being very clear. I am talking about ways to define and/or differentiate characters by something other than what they DO. The Fate Accelerated use of approaches is a good one, though: I can imagine making the TMNT, all of whom are martial artists, distinct by way of their approaches.

Aren't their martial arts approaches what they do though? Im trying to think what exactly you mean by archetype becasue thats usually tied to mechanics and doing things in RPG systems. Even backgrounds usually lead to things the character can do. Only thing not related to what a character does is personality, and I've not seen too many systems that lean into that.

 

[Reynard]

Am I on the right track for the types of things your looking for?

Yes. Thanks.

Aren't their martial arts approaches what they do though? Im trying to think what exactly you mean by archetype becasue thats usually tied to mechanics and doing things in RPG systems. Even backgrounds usually lead to things the character can do. Only thing not related to what a character does is personality, and I've not seen too many systems that lean into that.

The TMNT are all effectively the same from a what they DO perspective. They all are all 5th level ninjas, or whatever. What makes them distinct is their personalities. So what I am trying to figure out is if there is a way from a mechanics perspective to differentiate them. I liek the Aspects idea, and I think @Blue is on the right track.

 

[payn]

Yes. Thanks.

The TMNT are all effectively the same from a what they DO perspective. They all are all 5th level ninjas, or whatever. What makes them distinct is their personalities. So what I am trying to figure out is if there is a way from a mechanics perspective to differentiate them. I liek the Aspects idea, and I think @Blue is on the right track.

I’ve seen some PBTA playbooks that seem to put the two together. St least that’s what I saw in monster o the week and masks.

 

[Tonguez]

Aren't their martial arts approaches what they do though? Im trying to think what exactly you mean by archetype becasue thats usually tied to mechanics and doing things in RPG systems. Even backgrounds usually lead to things the character can do. Only thing not related to what a character does is personality, and I've not seen too many systems that lean into that.

In FATE the Approaches help define how they do it - in the case of the Ninja Turtles all four are Martial Artist (Ninjas in a halfshell) however Ralph is a Forceful & Quick, hard hitting character often reckless with emotion, whereas Leo is Careful & Quick, precise and disciplined, watching out for the others, he acts efficiently avoiding risks, Micheangelo is Quick & Flashy, he lives in the moment with flair and mobility, Donny is the Clever & Careful analytical fighter he looks the technical solutions to problems

Quick comes up with most of them - thats the Ninja aspect coming through

 

[Reynard]

For my specific use case, the characters are all modern corporate wage slaves who, for all intents and purposes, have the same degree of (lack of) skill when it comes to dungeon delving. One of the things that will differentiate them is their corporate Department -- not because it gives them special skills, though. Rather, there is a "faction intrigue" element in the game and what happens in the office matters to the dungeon part of play, and vice versa. The other primary differentiation will be what loot they find and choose to use. there is no mage class, for example, but a particular PC may decide to focus on the wands and grimoires they find.

 

[Theory of Games]

I guess I am not being very clear. I am talking about ways to define and/or differentiate characters by something other than what they DO. The Fate Accelerated use of approaches is a good one, though: I can imagine making the TMNT, all of whom are martial artists, distinct by way of their approaches.

Yeah you weren't clear. You used the term "archetypes", which refers to symbolism and drives right into literary tropes. Even with FATE Approaches, we looking at character descriptors (archetypes) that suggest how a character overcomes obstacles. AKA, what the character "does".

If I'm trying to explain to a group of players how characters function in a ttrpg, it's easier when I can just say "Character Type A does XYZ". I'm curious: how would you explain what a D&D Fighter is without saying what Fighters do? Like Philosophy, ttrpg design has certain "First Principles" that are fundamental to people being able to understand, play and enjoy your game. And when those principles are violated, most people will reject your game (e.g. D&D 4e).