What are the big non-d20/non-D&D Game Systems?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Second that vote for Scion games. It may not see much support, but its chock full of good ideas.

 

[pogminky]

Big is difficult.... most have already been mentioned. If you include out of print there's loads.

I'd say the ST system used by nWoD et al is the biggest non-D&D system
Then there's GURPS and all the others mentioned
CoC and the new Trail of Cthulhu have a decent following
There's loads of smaller ones: Aces & Eights to M&M to WHFR to Paranoia etc.

 

[Crothian]

Second that vote for Scion games. It may not see much support, but its chock full of good ideas.

The first three books were all they had planned but it sold well enough that they have two more books for it coming out.

 

[Pinotage]

He provided specific criteria for "big" in the first post -- ongoing supplement support from publishers. Incidentally, this exempts all of the OOP games that you mention (and some of the in print games no longer having supplements printed for them).

Accidentally, not intentionally. There are presumably a lot of great RPGs out there that are no longer supported.

Thanks!

Pinotage

Big is difficult.... most have already been mentioned. If you include out of print there's loads.

I'd say the ST system used by nWoD et al is the biggest non-D&D system
Then there's GURPS and all the others mentioned
CoC and the new Trail of Cthulhu have a decent following
There's loads of smaller ones: Aces & Eights to M&M to WHFR to Paranoia etc.

WHFR is small? I see that mentioned all the time. Given the miniatures and wargaming, I'd have thought that was quite large?

Pintoage

 

[Maggan]

Note, I'm not talking about single product RPGs, here, but rather those companies like White Wolf that release loads of support for their products.

Well, Fantasy Flight Games picked up WFRP and WH40kRP, and have plans to release books.

WFRP was before the transition, a very well supported system, but it is still up in the air as to the release schedule FFG will adopt.

WH40kRP was huge at release, and had an ambitious release plan. Again, it is unsure what FFG will do, but if you want to keep track of the huge games, I suggest you keep an eye on WH40kRP, since it's got a lot of potential.

/M

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

WHFR is small? I see that mentioned all the time. Given the miniatures and wargaming, I'd have thought that was quite large?

Pintoage

It's kinda funny... I've _never_ met a single person that plays the game. Never knew anyone that even knew there was an rpg. Only the minis. That covers a 20 year span, and living all over the U.S. and in Canada too.

But online, yeah I see it talked about. A quiet under-current, but it's there.

It's anecdotal evidence, sure. My main point being that "big" is an extremely relative term. Especially if you're relying on the internet to try and gauge the "size" or popularity of something.

I mean, if I was to belive the internet, I should be collecting books, lost at least one group to MMOs, and have gotten rid of all of my "dead" games since everyone was only playing D&D 3.x.

I do raise an eyebrow every time I see someone talking about the "huge" release of Dark Heresy. I have yet to see a single substantiated bit of information for it being a "huge" release, other than the fact that an extremely small number of collector edition books sold out in 6 minutes.

A lot of the people that appear to have picked up Dark Heresy were also fans of WHFRPG to start with. So that kind of muddles things, along with the fact that you can expect at least some of the books to have been picked up by non-rpg players looking for another source of fluff. As well as speculators, since as soon as the game was released, the news came out the GW was dropping the game. At the time it looked like it was still-born, and there wasn't going to be anything else. The deal with FFG came later. Which means that speculators bought up extra copies of the book too.

I'm not saying the game doesn't have fans. I'm just not sure how "big" the game really is.

And also... FFG? Not exactly the most reliable company out there for RPGs. They tend to pick stuff up, put out a few books, and then the line dies. Midnight being the notable exception to the rule.

Their non-d20 version of Grimm? I think that was a year overdue at least. Anima? That's over a year overdue. Granted, Anima has had some complications (a translator passed away?) but still...

Hopefully they don't do the same thing with WHFRPG/Dark Heresy. Despite having never met a fan, I know there's going to be some disappointed somewhere if FFG drop the ball.

 

[Turjan]

As for Vampire, Mage, Werewolf, Promethean, Changeling and the upcoming Hunter, yes, they ARE all based on the same system, indeed they share a central "system book" called The World of Darkness, and are in fact designed on the basis that you can use content from one of them with the others without having to try to "adapt" it or the like.

Don't forget that the nWoD has also the basic "Mortals" line, which you can use for normal low power horror adventures without PCs as monsters (as an aside: Hunter: The Vigil will also be a human-centric line). Vampire is still very popular, Werewolf is pretty much dead in the water, and Mage is somewhat slogging along. Promethean was the first of the minor lines, and everything planned for it is out. It had limited appeal. Changeling was a surprise success, and the line has been prolonged over what had originally been planned for it. Let's see how long this one will run, as it's somewhat limited in scope.

 

[Maggan]

.
I do raise an eyebrow every time I see someone talking about the "huge" release of Dark Heresy. I have yet to see a single substantiated bit of information for it being a "huge" release, other than the fact that an extremely small number of collector edition books sold out in 6 minutes.

And the first print run of the ordinary books is totally sold out. Although I don't know how many were printed, it says something about the success, I think. As does the web sites set up by fans to support the game.

But it's impossible to say. I think Green Ronin hinted at WFRP selling 30 000 copies or something first year. I have a hard time thinking that GW printed less of the WH40kRP books, but that might just be me projecting my hopes for a future for the game. The interest for the WH40kRP was more intense in my gaming circles than that for D&D4e.

Another bit of anecdotal evidence is that I know personally, IRL, around 20 gamers who have or are playing WFRP. But I only know 1 who plays WoD. And no one who plays Palladium or Rifts.

So judging from my sample, WFRP is bigger than D&D! Which it of course isn't.

Heh. It basically boils down to: we don't know if it is big or not. It sold out 200 copies at 175 dollars a pop, and went through the first ordinary printing in like two days or so. That's all I know.

/M

 

[Joe Sala]

I think the best managed "niche game" is Ars Magica. When they released the Fifth Edition they decided to publish four 144-pages hardcover supplements every year. Amazingly they are doing it, sales are excellent for their company size, and they can even reprint old books periodically.

 

[Pinotage]

I think the best managed "niche game" is Ars Magica. When they released the Fifth Edition they decided to publish four 144-pages hardcover supplements every year. Amazingly they are doing it, sales are excellent for their company size, and they can even reprint old books periodically.

Is this still being done by Atlas games?

Pinotage