What are the biggest threats?

[HP Dreadnought]

I don't know if its "THE #1 ISSUE", but I think making melee based characters fun and interesting to play as well as comparable to spellcasters at high levels is pretty important.

 

[DogBackward]

What I'm asking for is that someone show me a list of spell systems that are simpler than D&D's. I won't say it doesn't exist, but I honestly believe there are way more that have greater complexity than D&D.

Easy; SWSE's Force Powers. Each power you know can be used once per encounter, and they all have relatively simple effects. This could easily be done with a magic system; there would be more variety, but it could be just as simple overall.

I'll admit, Vancian magic isn't that horribly complicated. My main beef with Vancian magic isn't complication, but the fact that it's incredibly counter-intuitive, and rarely flavorful.

But then again, I've always grasped new things fairly easily. You shouldn't ask "Is it easy to understand?", you should ask "Is it easy for everybody to understand?"

As for the biggest problem, I'm thinking it might be all the "cool stuff" that everybody's supposed to be able to do. I'm worried there will be too many options, and not enough limit on the amount of things you can do at once. I'm worried that combat will get bogged down with indecisive players agonizing over which "cool thing" to do, and with all the actions piling up at once, until it takes an hour to get a combat round over. As long as they avoid those problems, everything else looks pretty awesome, overall.

I do really hope they provide logical, easy-to-use flavor for some of those counterintuitive things, though. Sure, you can use per-encounter abilities as well as per-day abilities, but why are the per-day abilities per-day? Any "You forget it after you cast it." just doesn't work... at least, not for me.

 

[Rel]

Ladies and gentlemen, as always, please do not ascribe thoughts and motives to others. Also, it's perfectly ok to think that something somebody else posted is a "load of crap". It's perfectly NOT ok to post that it's a "load of crap".

Feel free to e-mail me if any of this is unclear.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'll admit, Vancian magic isn't that horribly complicated. My main beef with Vancian magic isn't complication, but the fact that it's incredibly counter-intuitive, and rarely flavorful.

Well, I am not sure that a mechanic per se can be flavourful, but I think generally, the D&D vancian magic has a certain flavour to it. But it's extremely limited flavour and I also think the mechanical implementation has some weaknesses.

My first D&D (3.0) character was a Sorceror. I came from playing Shadowrun, and the D&D mechanics seemed pretty alien (and stupid) to me. Spellcasting was certainly no exception.

And I think the Shadowrun spellcasting system is pretty simple. Select your spell and force, roll a few dice, and apply the effect. You will have memorized most spell qualities in no time, unlike as with D&D, where you're always flipping through the rulebook to figure out how the spell works.
(Though this is not that bad. Shadowrun Magic system is easy, but its pretty simple, too. There is little room for all the creative spells and spell descriptions as they exist in D&D.)

 

[TwinBahamut]

If you reread my post you'll see I didn't claim there weren't simpler systems (in fact I asked for examples and WayneLion gave me some)...but I don't see the magic system of D&D as overly complex when compared to alot of magic systems out there. A little archaic , okay...but not complex. That is my assertion.

Now, as far as steadily repeating my assertion meaning there's no proof for disagreement...I stated that where exactly? Also how am I constantly repeating my assertion? I am responding to posts directed at me. Chill man it's the internet and a...disscusion forum. I'm not forcing anyone to reply to me or even read my posts. You don't like my position that's cool but I'm discussing my thoughts on the magic system with those who want to.

I think you are reading too much anger in my post. I know you have your right to post your opinions, and I have no problem with you doing so. I am sorry if my post came across as dismissive.

However, I also have a right to express my opinion, and my opinion is that the D&D spell system (particularly for wizards) is complicated, far more than you are portraying it as. What is more, there all kinds of layers to this complication that make it difficult to understand and learn.

The first problematic complication is the necessity of spell preparation. 99.9% of portrayals of wizards in fiction has the wizard being able to choose spells at the moment of casting. Having preparation occur before then is counter-intuitive.

The second problem is in spell levels. These are also somewhat counter-intuitive, since they too are only rarely found outside of D&D.

The third problem, and by far the most problematic, is the severe difference between "spells known" and "spells prepared". It requires the player to write down two entire lists of dozens of spells, potentially over a hundred at higher levels, one of which is constantly changing, and the other which is only relatively static. The fact that the "known" spells list is tied to a wizard's spellbook, and not to the wizard himself, adds further problematic complications. This is a problem for both trying to understand the system, and for keeping track of the system in the middle of the game.

Things such as a constant list of spells, each spell having a set number of times it can be used, or a unified system of limiting spells (like an MP system), would help a lot in making the system easier to understand and use. Of course, by now it should be clear that I consider the Sorcerer to be an improvement over the Wizard within the D&D spellcasting system...