D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[MichaelSomething]

Anyone in the mood for a GURPS game??

 

[Eubani]

In a fantasy world there are ways a mortal could go beyond what a standard mortal can accomplish without magic.
1. Being A Hero: It is a fantasy trope that the fact that a mortal is a hero means that they can go above and beyond mortal limits.
2. Fate/Destiny (or whatever one of a million differing terms): Can curve or straighten the road in front of a character that make outcomes seem beyond mortal ken.
3. Luck: In a fantasy world luck is not just random odds occasionally going your way, it is an active force that plays favorites.
4. Alignments: The alignments in D&D are not just moral descriptions but are active forces that empower people towards certain goals.
5. Background Radiation: In a fantasy world chock full of gods not even knowing how many forms of power, force, etc acting upon a world and its mortal folk you can get a XMen type of affect where a small part of the population has power and ability beyond the mortal norm.

This list can go on and on there are many reasons why a Fighter does not have to be normal man, after nearly 5 decades of normal man I am sure there is room for Hero Man.

 

[mamba]

5e cut down on "Magic Items!" being the excuse for shenanigans and people filled the void with super heroics.

the abilities a char has increased, making gear somewhat less essential

 

[mamba]

It's a fantastic version of that species.

Because D&D is, despite how unpalatable some find the fact, a fantasy game.

the difference simply is how fantastic we want that species to be, even for a fantasy game

 

[Micah Sweet]

In a fantasy world there are ways a mortal could go beyond what a standard mortal can accomplish without magic.
1. Being A Hero: It is a fantasy trope that the fact that a mortal is a hero means that they can go above and beyond mortal limits.
2. Fate/Destiny (or whatever one of a million differing terms): Can curve or straighten the road in front of a character that make outcomes seem beyond mortal ken.
3. Luck: In a fantasy world luck is not just random odds occasionally going your way, it is an active force that plays favorites.
4. Alignments: The alignments in D&D are not just moral descriptions but are active forces that empower people towards certain goals.
5. Background Radiation: In a fantasy world chock full of gods not even knowing how many forms of power, force, etc acting upon a world and its mortal folk you can get a XMen type of affect where a small part of the population has power and ability beyond the mortal norm.

This list can go on and on there are many reasons why a Fighter does not have to be normal man, after nearly 5 decades of normal man I am sure there is room for Hero Man.

All great explanations. Spend a paragraph at the beginning of the character creation chapter and put it in the book.

 

[Minigiant]

the abilities a char has increased, making gear somewhat less essential

5e made gear less essential for offense and defense.

5e did not make gear less essential for movement, combat variety, utility, exploration, and interaction.

That's the point. 5e told DMs that parties did not need magic gear for offense and defense.

5e did not tell DMs that many classes were designed around magic gear boosting or granting variety in movement, combat variety, utility, exploration, and interaction so if you removed the magic gear, those classes would be lacking in those areas.

 

[Stalker0]

well I will say my thread last a lot more pages than I expected before it went completely off the rails.

 

[Vaalingrade]

the difference simply is how fantastic we want that species to be, even for a fantasy game

Seems like everything gets a pass but the creatures the players play as if they don't have discreet magic. No non-magical fantasy allowed for them.

Quicklings get to be the Flash

Ogres get to be the Hulk.

Hobgoblins get to be Captain America

Wizards get to be boring Doctor Strange.

But the literal magical elf fighter? Need to pretend to care about what some nerds think a strong Earth man can do without even research into what strong earth men can do.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What are some major modern fantasy stories? Anything on film or TV that meets your claim?

Has any modern fantasy made it to movies or TV? I can't think of anything which started after about 1996 which has made it to TV so far. WoT is '80s, Witcher is 1990s, GoT was 1996, LotR is 1940s, Conan 1930s.

If we look at fantasy on TV/movies that isn't based on novels, then stuff like Raya and the Last Dragon clearly follows the model I'm discussing, or Avatar. I would suggest most animated fantasy probably does in fact.

If we look at written fantasy, then we can probably go by authors where it's typically the case - Leigh Bardugo, RJ Barker (who does vaguely hint but never state that his humans aren't Earth humans - his settings are often slightly Dark Sun-like, i.e. post-magic/environmental apocalypse, and you may well recall that Dark Sun strongly hinted changes had been made to humans, but never outright stated it), Jenn Lyons, Mark Lawrence, Sarah J. Maas, T. Kingfisher, Brian Staveley (who does an interestingly weirdo combo of explained and unexplained superhuman feats and capacities), and I could go on. Do you need to me to? I listed a bunch of crazy best-selling people here.

And we have a lot of older novels where it's hinted that humans are different but never stated - Gene Wolfe, for example. We also have modern authors where human limits apply - except when they don't. For example, an explicitly non-magic-assisted human woman performs incredibly outlandish feats in Steven Erikson's Reaper's Gale. One might likewise make a case that many of Conan's feats are not ones a "normal human" could accomplish.

I strongly suspect that if I re-read Stormlight Archive (which isn't going to happen) we'd see that even before explicit magic being in the mix, they would clearly be "not earth humans". Hell, the fact that their hair works the way it does means they aren't, just by itself. But is it ever stated? No. Are they called something other than human? No.

The list of authors where humans really do seem to definitely be earth humans would be shorter, I think. GRRM's A Game of Thrones immediately comes to mind.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Nobody's removed magic items from the game at all. They're just no longer part of the necessary upgrade. Fighters still have access to them like they always had.

The issue is that the game changed from having class level + magic items as the driver to class level + attribute bonus. It used to be that attributes were a significance at low levels to largely irrelevant at higher ones. Now, level is equal to attributes in importance due to bounded accuracy. That the strength score had other functions than combat bonuses was largely irrelevant. What was important was that they could transform their 1d8+2 damage to 1d8+8. At the level you would expect them to gain this item the fighter is doing 12 / 24 / 36 damage a round depending on their attacks and number of opponents.

This had the effect that an item that increased an attribute by +4 netted a +2 attribute bonus. This could be considered worth 4-5 levels given bounded accuracy. Levels are less important in 5e than 1e.

Whether or not this is a problem, per se, is up to the individual.