What are your thoughts on ANIME's influence on D&D?

[FireLance]

This is partly why people less versed in anime, and japanese culture, generally think it's all alike - because it is. You strip the genres: the magical girls, the group crime fighting dramas (Power rangers, sailor moon), sci-fi, fantasy, silly romances, and what do you have? Generally, the same thing, with only a few key differences. They're in a spaceship fighting the bad guys, or they're in the castle fighting the bad guys, or they're in the city figting the bad guys, etc... I've seen romances, where, they're fighting bad guys! A very hyperbolic arguement, true, but I don't feel like weedling out a better example.

The japanese thought process, and culture is one akin to the "Be in the group" and "Don't stand out." Notice in these animes there is usually a cast of group heroes, with usually one or two leaders? Notice the very common notion of sacrifice yourself for the good of the group? How many times in the epic fight have the weaker members given their "Energy" to the stronger leaders to defeat the enemy? Or selflessly fought to weaken the bad guy enough so that other members can take him out.

Good grief, this sounds like most of the campaigns I've run.

I've got anime in my D&D!

 

[hong]

Lots of opinions here, it's nice to see a big passionate thread . I personally, liking very little anime (But there are a few shows I do enjoy, namely Cowboy Bebop), don't see it's influence on the older gamers,

I'm older than you, boy!

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Face faults aren't a dealbreaeker for me, since they're normally only used in a sort of over-the-top attempt at humor, which ABSOLUTELY looses something in translation...snip...Unfortunately, humor is something that not even an elite bilingual translator can effectively convey very well, so it often comes off as flat and spastic.

No disagreement from me, it's obviously humor and judging by its commonality it must be widely considered funny in Japan. Just one of those things that doesn't translate well, still turns a lot of people off when it happens frequently.

You'll get no disagreement for me, except that I've never seen chibified characters on the networks.

Maybe not clear, wasn't talking about the entire show as chibi. But when in particularly emotional scenes they interrupt the scene for a blank background skit of chibi charactitures doing ridiculous things, might be called Kawaii though I'm not really sure. It seems fairly common and in the same shows as face faults is that considered just a more extreme subset of face faults then?

This, I'm actually going to slightly disagree with, because it's definitely NOT just an anime thing. You know that image of Superman atop the logo of the Daily Planet with his cape stretched out behind him? That image of Batman lurking in the high shadows of Gotham? Posing! It comes right out of comic books, and it's surely something I try to do in my evocative D&D descriptions. An acrobatic dance out of the path of a fireball, or a triumphant deciding slash with your sword...that moment of awe-inspiring coolness.

I was speaking specifically to the tactic of initiating combat with a ridiculous pose and inarticulate screaming of some kind, DBZ is fairly famous for this. Then having the fight be as much static posing against blank backgrounds as actual fighting. Rather than dramatic pose-against-a-skyline outside of combat moodsetters.

Again, I think this is absolutely relevant for D&D. Wizards are always screaming out some awful gibberish before they unleash the giant ball of fire. It's all about the verbal chant of arcane energy!

Man, you're games must be very different. Nothing says the spell has to be screamed, in fact I've always played up the other side, a simple word spoken aloud in a normal voice that causes some huge effect.

It's also relevant to martial arts...this isn't just a punch, this is the legendary Dragon Punch, handed down for generations of fighters from the Whatever School of Awesome Arts. Screaming the name lets your enemies know that it's not just you they face -- it's the collected wisdom of all those who have trained you. Admittedly, I can't see anyone in a fight actually doing that...but the identification of classic moves is a staple even in European fencing styles, so moves having names (and people being able to identify them) makes sense to me.

Names are for training purposes, the last thing you want an enemy to know is what you're about to hit him with. And identification is in the mind of the other party. While all these guys are screaming someone else would be killing them. It's all about speed and brutality, give no warning, smash the opponent first as hard as possible and keep at it until they go down and stay there. I'd rather see something that reflects this.

It's called "building tension." Yeah, it's overplayed and over-developed a lot...InuYasha is perhaps the worst offender where the love triangle between Girl-Half-Demon-Undead Ex-Girlfriend has been going on for an absurd length of time. But this isn't unique to anime, either. How long did the Ross and Rachel drama on Friends go on, after all?

No arguments about drama, that's what it is, though I never watched Friends anyway. Maybe it's something cultural but some aspect of drama in most anime tends to really turn me off. I suspect it may be something cultural not carrying over and rubbing the wrong way. Just as an example Gasaraki, I bought it because it had great almost-plausible giant robots. Then the drama just turned me off and it was definitely the cultural elements that made it dramatic to a japanese audience irritating me.

The "idiot savant" is a solid archetype, though. You've got the role of the Jester or Fool, the lucky moron, the normal guy with the incredible will....you could even say Frodo and Samwise fit this archetype: they're piddly little things who rise to the challenge when it's presented. Sam goes back and lives a comfortable hobbit-life in the Shire when he's done, and he never stops talking about what he's cooking. Maybe Merry and Pippin fit it even better. That's also an aspect of the sluggish character growth in a lot of Anime, though: Naruto *will* become competent and powerful, it'll just take seven years of animation to get there (more, if it's a successful series).

Sam and Frodo were competent they were just fairly ordinary other than being very strong-willed. What I was pointing out was the fact that for example Naruto isn't just focused and immature he's even incompetent at the few things he's supposed to be competent at. Right up until the moment PLOT requires he be competent in those things, so he wins, then immediately goes back to being incompetent at them until the next moment of PLOT necessity. It's that sort of extreme exagerration of the trope that grates.

And my greatest point was that if these elements aggravate a person and are common to what they've seen of a media they most likely will apply it to the rest and not go looking to sort the gems from the garbage.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Sad. You've never heard of Ray Bradbury? Fahrenheit 451 ring a bell?

Quoted for truth. I read alot more then I watch TV or movies. From Ray to Edgar, William to Homer, Books have far more inflused my design then anything on the tube.

Just putting in my .02...
Face faults aren't a dealbreaeker for me, since they're normally only used in a sort of over-the-top attempt at humor, which ABSOLUTELY looses something in translation. They're used a lot in younger-targeted anime, because over-the-top emotion is not only funny for kids, it's also simple and identifiable, very elemental. Unfortunately, humor is something that not even an elite bilingual translator can effectively convey very well, so it often comes off as flat and spastic.

True. Much like you would hire a clown for a 6 year old's birthday party and not a 21st.


[qoute]You know that image of Superman atop the logo of the Daily Planet with his cape stretched out behind him? That image of Batman lurking in the high shadows of Gotham? Posing! It comes right out of comic books, and it's surely something I try to do in my evocative D&D descriptions. An acrobatic dance out of the path of a fireball, or a triumphant deciding slash with your sword...that moment of awe-inspiring coolness. [/quote]

Also true, but personaly I think the Kung Fu pose is far more over doe then the super hero pose.

Again, I think this is absolutely relevant for D&D. Wizards are always screaming out some awful gibberish before they unleash the giant ball of fire. It's all about the verbal chant of arcane energy! It's also relevant to martial arts...this isn't just a punch, this is the legendary Dragon Punch, handed down for generations of fighters from the Whatever School of Awesome Arts. Screaming the name lets your enemies know that it's not just you they face -- it's the collected wisdom of all those who have trained you.

I dissagree. In anime all you do is call out the name of the spell or attack you are doing. In D&D you have a long dragonic speach to say for casting. In real martial arts, no attack <Ive been taught or have even heard of> had a goofy name like Legendary Dragon punch, nor do you call it out when attacking. In a real fight, you might as well tell your enemy what you are doing before you do it. "Stand there while I round house you in the face." To jump back to spell casing, A Fighter or Monk may not know what the incantaion for fireball is, as where in anime you have to be dumb not to caught what you where just hit with.

The "idiot savant" is a solid archetype, though. You've got the role of the Jester or Fool, the lucky moron, the normal guy with the incredible will....you could even say Frodo and Samwise fit this archetype: they're piddly little things who rise to the challenge when it's presented. Sam goes back and lives a comfortable hobbit-life in the Shire when he's done, and he never stops talking about what he's cooking. Maybe Merry and Pippin fit it even better.

That's also an aspect of the sluggish character growth in a lot of Anime, though: Naruto *will* become competent and powerful, it'll just take seven years of animation to get there (more, if it's a successful series).

I dissagree once more. The hobbits are by know means powerful comapred to the dwarf, the wizard of the ranger, but there by no means comapre to naurto. While not the stongest, they can fight well enough to defend any chalange that came to the party. On the other hand, Naurto is as represented correctly.

---Rusty

 

[Thunderfoot]

The rest of your post aside, this bit here is mostly the fault of american translators trying to put together low budget voice overs as close to a deadline as possible.

Actually, I've seen it go BOTH ways, but I do understand your point. Mine was that after an initial thoughful foray into what was at the time an incredible expression of art (Macross and the like) it has since degenerated into a sea of drivel and puss. (Naruto being the object of my hate this week, it used to be Pokemon but it appears that that ship has sailed, sort of.) Like all things, once something is popular you must mass produce it and water it down, immediately if not sooner.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Ah, Damn. I was beaten to the punch.

---Rusty

 

[Thunderfoot]

Ya know, saying that anime is a single genre is like saying there is no difference between Dr. Zuess and R.A. Salvador. <SNIP>

My name is Drizzt you stupid ditz and with my swords your skull I splitz.
Not left or right but up and down until your bood flows on the ground.

 

[BRP2]

Please, do not attribute motives or actions to others. The internet is a notoriously poor medium for mind-reading. You don't know why these people have these opinions. They have not told you.

I don't blame you for saying this, however, in this case, I'm actually right. I've seen people in this thread and copies of this thread say outright "I don't like it, and I won't even bother trying it". So, yeah, doing what you said is bad, but I could just quote people to prove my point. The fact people hate it more than sin is kind of enough to prove this too. They speak as if anime raped their kids, and don't bother to mention why.

A lot of the points said in this thread have only proved what everyone on said have been saying: "Anime is a media".

Media(art) is never really original. The Japanese are about as creative as the Americans. Like the phrase goes: Nothing has been original since Beowulf.

Thing about Bleach(and most other shows like Naruto). Bleach is pretty awesome at what it does. It's not really meant to be entirely a dramatic thing. I don't believe it when someone says the plot is bad, it has some pretty awesome twists(and one of the best bad guys ever, just saying who he is). It is a show that focuses on humor, awesome(some border insane) powers, and characters. It is your typical action/superhero comic.

About Naruto, the character himself. Once again, it is an action comic. Naruto's character is like Wolverine, in a sense, I'm sure there are better comparisons. Rather than relying on smarts most of the time, he runs on pure emotion and his strength increases based on his emotion. I think someone said that there isn't much strategy in Naruto. I got to disagree, I mean, early on, things become pretty awesome. In the first major story arc, the main characters are separated from their leader(Gandalf-like character) and have to fight someone very much so out of their league. The methods they use to stay alive and actually challenge their opponent was enough to get me hooked(and I wasn't disappointed, crazy stuff like I mentioned is common throughout the series).

About the whole angst thing. Yeah, it is there, but not as bad as some people say it is. I mean, Shinji from Eve was pretty horrible, but in other animes, it's kind of understandable. Naming Naruto and Bleach alone, I don't see any of this over-the-top girl drama you've been mentioning. It is usually a guy who is frustrated about how weak he is compared to his opponent(which motivates him to become stronger) or you know, having his whole family murdered by his own family. Nothing worse than what Luke Skywalker gave us, or Frodo from the movies.

If the pacing of anime is bad for you, read manga. Trust me, it is just so much better, especially if you don't enjoy the music of shows. Shows need to be 20~ minutes long, while manga doesn't have that problem. In anime, those long moments of nothing happening comes from the fact they need to take a single panel and stretch it out for 5 to 10 seconds.

Anyway, before you make judgment on Anime or Manga on a whole, watch/read Death Note. Holy crap, it is good.

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

Anime is as much of an influence on D&D as sword and sorcery, Lewis Carroll, Michael Moorcock, science fiction, the Bible and other religious texts, all the cheesy kung fu flicks that used to play on Saturdays, etc. were on the original version. If anything, its merely in a loop just as the GIs brought comics to Japan after WW2 or the Japanese took American animation like Warner Brothers or Walt Disney and gave it their own twist, which the West returned the favor later on (see also cowboy movies).

Astro Boy, the first anime? Updated version of Pinnochio with some pop sci fi references (like Aasimov I suppose). Samurai Champloo? More or less a Western like Cowboy Bebop before it. It's not like things in the States are all that original either - Transformers were based on at least 2 different toy lines (from Japan too), He-Man was supposed to be a tie-in toy to the first Conan movie, etc.

Anime hardly did anything first. Arthur became king of England after pulling a sword from a stone at a young age but that's probably because of Uncle Walt's movie so there goes the "pre pubescent child hero" argument. Admittedly there's more than a few fairie tales with child heroes like Momotaro (Peach Boy), Hansel and Gretel, Jack the Giantkiller and even Lil Red Riding Hood.

The posing? Feh. We've all seen the showdowns at high noon in the middle of the street on some Western show or another, often with a tumbleweed blowing between them. There's the classic Superman pose mentioned earlier and countless kung fu movies that even suggest that "Your Four Season Style is no match for my Five Element Fist!"

The funky faces / stress lines or whatever they're called? No less than Wile E. Coyote holding a sign up that says "Uh oh." as he falls off a cliff or Steamboat Willy aka Mickey Mouse shaking his fist in frustration.

Goku and Dragonball was originally based on a famous fairy tale (Journey to the East) but to up the ante, they beefed everyone up and kept doing so as the series progressed. Sounds like power creep to me. Sure Goku (or most anime heroes) are dumber than a box of frozen peas but they win because they don't give up. And also the good guys always win.

It's just part of evolution or better yet, like cooking. Borrow the parts you like, changing them if desired and dump the rest. Consider the history of the American automobile - lumbering dinosaurs of the 50's and 60's that became overrun by the imports during the 70's only to adapt somewhat to the 80's and 90's.

This "anime influence on D&D" is just chasing your tail.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Goku and Dragonball was originally based on a famous fairy tale (Journey to the East)

Journey to the West, actually. It's a novel by Wu Cheng'en.

Goku, of course, is also apparently based on Superman as much as on Sun Wukong (Son Goku) of Chinese myth.