What can a high level, reincarnated druid do with A Thousand Faces?

[Dagredhel]

Say a druid of 13th or higher level gets killed, and then reincarnated in non-humanoid form.

It seems to me that she could use her A Thousand Faces ability to assume the appearance of her original body. (Unless there is a difference of +/- 50% in size, that seems well within the scope of Alter Self, the effect of which A Thousand Faces duplicates.) Even if she were reincarnated as a smaller sized creature, she could Wildshape into something medium-sized, and then use A Thousand Faces. If she had been reincarnated as a creature good ability score adjustments, she'd have the benefit of those while freely resuming her previous appearance, wouldn't she? This appears to be a way of benefiting from Reincarnation while completely avoiding any downside.

On a similar note, a regular ol' (13+ level) non-reincarnated human druid Wildshapes into a bear, and then uses A Thousand Faces to appear just as he does as a man. He keeps the physical stats of the bear, right?

Are there any official rulings preventing the scenarios above?

 

[LokiDR]

The reincarnate situation works just fine. That is kinda the point of druids - current body doesn't matter.

The bear situation is a bit different because of the definination of wildshape, polymorph, and Thousand Faces. If wildshape is just like polymorph, you can not use supernatural abilities (like Thousand Faces) while in your other form. The SRD lists wildshape as polymorph, but I am not sure on the full errta these days.

 

[Christian]

Alter Self
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: The character
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
The character can alter the character's appearance and form-including clothing and equipment-to appear taller or shorter, thin, fat, or in between. The assumed form must be corporeal. The character's body can undergo a limited physical transmutation, including adding or subtracting one or two limbs, and the character's weight can be changed up to one-half. If the form selected has wings, the character can fly at a speed of 30 feet with poor maneuverability. If the form has gills, the character can breathe underwater.
The character's attack rolls, natural armor bonus, and saves do not change. The spell does not confer special abilities, attack forms, defenses, ability scores, or mannerisms of the chosen form. Once the new form is chosen, it remains for the duration of the spell. If the character is slain, the character automatically returns to the character's normal form.
If the character uses this spell to create a disguise, the character gets a +10 bonus on the character's Disguise check.

You can't alter self into a bear shape. That is not a 'limited physical transmutation[/i], IMO. Nor can you alter self a bear shape into a human. The druid could possibly alter his bear shape by making it smaller, less hairy, possibly adjusting the front paws to give them prehensile fingers and opposable thumbs, overall giving a vaguely humanoid appearance and function. But he wouldn't be human, much less appearing as his former self.

 

[Dagredhel]

IMO.

"IMO" in my opinion does not an official ruling make.

But posting the description of Alter Self was certainly considerate.

The reference to using the spell to create a disguise, with the listed bonus to the skill check, makes me wonder whether a druid reincarnated in animal form would have to make a Disguise check to 'disguise' himself as the person she was prior to her reincarnation. What would the DC be for that?

Seriously, thanks for the reply, Christian.

 

[LokiDR]

Alter self can not give (or remove) natural weapons, natural armor, or physical stat changes. But if it can give you up to 2 more usable limbs, it should be able to reduce you to human size, give you thumbs, and make all that fur disapear. This doesn't mean your items are still usable, if they were absorbed into you during the wildshape.

 

[Stalker0]

I would have to say going from a bear to a human is a little beyond the scope of the alter self, unless its a black bear. Large creatures have weights from 500 lbs - 4000 lbs, you can cut that in half, so your a heavy human considering the max weight an adventurer in the game can have is 128 lbs.

Another key point is that you don't have the mannerisms of the form your trying to obtain. Meaning things like walking upright, not sniffing everything in sight, etc.

While going from another humaniod to human is a synch, going from a bear to one is kind of extreme.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Large creatures have weights from 500 lbs - 4000 lbs, you can cut that in half, so your a heavy human considering the max weight an adventurer in the game can have is 128 lbs.

Wha...? Page 93 of the PH gives a range of 124 to 280 pounds for adventurers.

 

[Zad]

Oddly this exact thing happened in our game.

It seems to me that she could use her A Thousand Faces ability to assume the appearance of her original body.

They could get close. Remember that Thousand Faces works like Alter Self, and alter self has this line:

If the character uses this spell to create a disguise, the character gets a +10 bonus on the character's Disguise check

So if you're a halfling who's been reincarnated as an elf, you can look like a halfling, sure. But to look like a specific halfling (i.e. your old self) you would have to make a disguise check. Unfortunately it's an opposed check so it's hard to be specific.

Assume take-10 for everything for ease. Let's say there's someone who would recognize the druid on sight. So it's the unskilled observer (1) + roll (10) + reognizes (4) = 15

The druid gets their bonus for 1000-faces (10) + roll (10) + different race (-2) = 18. I'd give a circumstance bonus since the druid would be very familiar with their own appearance, so 20. Easily beats most generic observers.

Now if it was the druids mother, she might notice that he doesn't look quite right. That's only an issue if the druid is trying to hide the fact he's no longer really a halfling from his mother. If he tells her, then of course it's moot.

 

[LokiDR]

I would have to say going from a bear to a human is a little beyond the scope of the alter self, unless its a black bear. Large creatures have weights from 500 lbs - 4000 lbs, you can cut that in half, so your a heavy human considering the max weight an adventurer in the game can have is 128 lbs.

Another key point is that you don't have the mannerisms of the form your trying to obtain. Meaning things like walking upright, not sniffing everything in sight, etc.

While going from another humaniod to human is a synch, going from a bear to one is kind of extreme.

Who says your weight changes? The only way the 50% change works is by physical dimentions. A brown bear that has a 50% reduction in hight can easily be as tall as a human, the same for width.

As for manerisims, wildshape doesn't change any of your behavior. Even reincarnate, giving you the ability to use your new form, does not change who you are or the fact that you are a sentient creature who can choose to act any way they want.

 

[Skaros]

LOL even if you allow it (bear to human shape), think about the actual transformation.

First, alter yourself to look like a human ... ok, you're naked. Assuming someone hands you a pack of clothing, you can then change into human clothing.

Then you get into a fight. Do you pull an incredible hulk and burst through your clothes? Not that it wouldn't be a cool scene, but...LOL

-Skaros