D&D 5E What can be dispelled?

If dispel magic can negate any magical effect, that removes the need for a slew of other spells, like remove curse and greater restoration. That seems like it would make the game less interesting.
Possibly remove curse, but greater restoration can fix problems that are explicitly non-magical.

Even with remove curse, it's trivial for the DM to decide that certain curses require that spell, and other (weaker) curses can be removed with dispel magic.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
You stated that the problem was shoddy writing on the part of WotC. You stated that WotC rushed this. I say, nonsense.
'Shoddy' implies carelessness or unintended consequences. 5e was written with the idea that it was a starting point that the DM would modify, and that the rules they were writing would be routinely trumped by DM rulings on a case by case basis. Designing to those parameters might look 'shoddy' when judged by the standards of a community under the iron rule of RAW or expecting clarity and balance.
 

Eric V

Hero
Maybe it wasn't shoddy, but it wasn't super clear since it started with the very generic 'magical effects' then moved to the very specific 'spells.'

So, it caused some confusion in our group.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Maybe it wasn't shoddy, but it wasn't super clear since it started with the very generic 'magical effects' then moved to the very specific 'spells.'

So, it caused some confusion in our group.

The rules won't always be clear or apply exactly in every situation. Just rule in a way that is the most fun for your group and don't worry about it.
 

Eric V

Hero
Oh for sure, but this was one case that wasn't exactly 'corner'; seems it would have been one of the easier ones to predict unclear situations for.

In that vein, would it have been helpful to include a sentence along the lines of "The DM can determine if other effects may be dispelled by Dispel Magic" to at least acknowledge the ambiguity (sort of like what they just did with stealth)?
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
In that vein, would it have been helpful to include a sentence along the lines of "The DM can determine if other effects may be dispelled by Dispel Magic" to at least acknowledge the ambiguity (sort of like what they just did with stealth)?

If you assume that to be the case in all things in D&D, you can't go far wrong!
 

If we limit dispel magic to spells only, can anyone think of examples of non-spell effects that don't have some way of permanently removing them short of a wish?

If there aren't many examples that lack a means of removal, I'm inclined to limit dispel magic purely to spells--it's already a very powerful spell in this edition. If, on the other hand, there are a lot of effects that have no remedy available, I'd consider allowing dispel magic (or some of the other existing spells) to remove them.
 

Chocolategravy

First Post
The rules won't always be clear or apply exactly in every situation. Just rule in a way that is the most fun for your group and don't worry about it.

Generally most fun for the group is what the expert designers intended, which is what the OP was asking, not what your houserules are. Saying "ignore all the rules, have fun" is an entirely useless comment. This isn't a case of something being broken, there is nothing to be "fixed" here to be more fun.
 


Here's how I see it: The players have no recourse to the rules as they are the domain of the DM to use as he or she pleases to serve the game experience. A player does have recourse to the DM's rulings in the exact or substantially similar fictional situations. So if the DM has ruled that dispel magic will break the succubus' charm, when the players encounter another succubus or perhaps an incubus, then they'd be right to expect dispel magic is going to work.
This doesn't logically follow. If the DM isn't beholden to the rules in the book, then why should he or she be beholden to prior rulings?

From the player perspective, both situations are identical - you think you know how things are going to resolve, based on your prior understanding, but the DM decides to do it differently and you had no way of knowing this beforehand. As a player, you're essentially flying blind, because you have no basis for guessing how any action will resolve. And with no way of knowing that, you don't have enough information to decide which actions you should or should not take.

How I see it: The DM is in charge of the rules, and can feel free to change or enforce (or not enforce) any rule as he or she sees fit, with the goal of encouraging fun. Encouraging fun usually means that the DM should be fair, so that the players can make decisions with reasonable certainty over whether an action will automatically succeed or fail, or whether it will require some sort of check.

As such, the rules in the book form the basis for how the DM should determine whether an action is uncertain, and how to resolve it when it is uncertain. They exist so that the players will be able to understand how the DM will make those decisions. When you decide to play D&D, it's because you want these rules to form the basis over how decisions are made (and you want the DM to have the option to change things, without feeling like you're playing it incorrectly).

The DM is free to change the rules, of course, but the players should be informed of any changes long before they become relevant. When the cleric first gains access to third level spells, he or she should be informed that you handle Dispel Magic differently from what's in the book, because the rules in the book form the basis for how the player understands that the spell will work.

Every discussion on these boards, about the Rules-As-Written and Rules-As-Intended, is important because it forms the foundation for how players should expect the rules to work in play. Even consensus that a rule is vague, and open to interpretation, is valuable for establishing a baseline.

The rules won't always be clear or apply exactly in every situation. Just rule in a way that is the most fun for your group and don't worry about it.
This seems much more in line with the intent of the rule structure. Vague rules are left to interpretation, because it isn't fun to stop and cross-reference the various rules sources whenever you're uncertain. The DM is in charge of interpreting rules that are unclear, but should follow the rules in any situation where they are clear, because the players have reasonable expectations that those rules will be followed unless you give them reason to expect differently.
 

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