What can you do when there's a Fireball pinned to your butt???

[Jolly Giant]

I've been the pondering for a while about the Arcane Archer's ability to "attach" area spells to his arrows, making the arrows point of impact the center of the area of effect...

Say for instance that an arcane archer shoots an arrow carrying a fireball at an enemy; the arrow hits and the fireball goes off. Do you allow the person that just got hit a reflex save against the fireball?

To me it seems illogical that anyone could save against a fireball that is practically stapled to their chest/back/whatever, but I'm a bit concerned the arcane archer class will get somewhat too powerful if he can shoot off fireballs etc. with no save. I'm currently thinking I should allow a save, but at a severe penalty; something like -10 or -20. How does all the other DMs around here handle this?

What about non-instantaneous AoE spells, like the various fog-spells? Does the AoE follow the arrow AFTER it's been triggered? Or does the AoE remain where it is if the arrow is thrown/carried away?

Let's hear it, folks! I'm curious...

 

[BigAlzBub]

You should allow a normal save, why? Because the point of impact may be your bum, but you can still roll and dodge from the blast. This particular power of attaching spells isn't very useful for long range spells like fireball, in 3.0 (when haste gave an extra partial action) it was good with the seeker arrow or phase arrow (the only way to do this sort of thing in 3.5 is to be epic level and use shapechange to become a choker)

 

[Nifft]

IMHO, this is one of the lamest implementations of the Arcane Archer concept. Personally, I'd change the special ability to allow you to deliver melee touch attacks using arrows (as regular missile attacks).

The most useful effects I can find to use with the rules-as-written are cones, including Cone of Cold, Waves of Fatigue and Burning Hands.

-- N

 

[steev42]

There is a prescedent for situations like this, and that is when a dragon has a victim in his mouth when he breathes. In that case, the victim receives no save.

However, that is a grapple situation. Perhaps allow the arrow to make a 'grapple' check (Somewhere around -8, I would imagine) to see if it sticks in; if it does, there would be no save. If not, there would be a save.

If you don't want the extra degree of complexity, I'd just say that he gets a save.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

How is it any different than a person making a save when the fireball is targeted on them? A Rogue with Evasion can be in the heart of a fireball and escape the entire effect, and yet they don't move out of the area of effect - that requires a certain suspension of disbelief, so does this situation. Save away - maybe the person has a really tough backside that diminishes the effects, maybe the spell, being lodged in their backside, does not fill the entire area as effectively and so they can escape the worst of it.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Phew, had to look for this one a while... My PC's been down with a virus since just after I started this thread so I havn't seen any of your replies until today.

But thanks for posting, everyone. Seems the general consensus is that a save should be allowed.

But what about the second half of my question..?

What about non-instantaneous AoE spells, like the various fog-spells? Does the AoE follow the arrow AFTER it's been triggered? Or does the AoE remain where it is if the arrow is thrown/carried away?

 

[Felon]

Let me take the opportunity to ask something tangentially-related to the topic: what have those who have firsthand experience with the arcane archer actually found it to be good at? The prerequisites are such that a character can't take the PrC until 8th level, and that's assuming that the arcane archer only settles for 1st or 2nd-level casting ability (and paltry arcane talents would tend to run counter to pursuing the class wouldn't it?). Unlike, say, the eldritch knight or arcane trickster, this PrC does not bestow any increase in spellcasting progression. Instead, the class bestows a few abilities that would be cool if they could be used more than once per day--but they can't, so they're lame. The only other possible redeeming quality is the ability to enchant arrows, and a good magic bow already does that.

Anyone care to enlighten me? I've only eyeballed the PrC, but it would seem by the time a character has enough levels to have fireball as well as to have enough levels to meet the BAB bonus prerequisites, it would seem he could be a pursuing much more formidable paths.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Hello Felon.

It's not a particularly strong PrC, no, which is one of the reasons I considered to disallow saves for anyone unfortunate enough to be hit by an arrow carrying an area spell.

However, I'm quite fond of the concept of the class; it's "flavor" to put it that way. I love wizards and I love archers, so I guess it goes without saying I love the idea behind the arcane archer. I guess it could be interesting to try it out on an epic character, something like a wiz 20... Such a character wouldn't miss out on spells per day, only on effective caster level, which can at least be partially remedied by the Practiced Spellcaster feat from CD. On the other hand, giving up those epic bonus feat an epic wizard would gain is also a major sacrifice...

Anyone have any clever ideas on how to make the AA a more attractive PrC?

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Phew, had to look for this one a while... My PC's been down with a virus since just after I started this thread so I havn't seen any of your replies until today.

But thanks for posting, everyone. Seems the general consensus is that a save should be allowed.

But what about the second half of my question..?

I have no idea if there is anything in the rules to say one way or the other, but I might allow the AoE to move with the arrow, depending upon the spell. I would say probably say no to something like a fog spell, which I do not see as "anchored" to the target - a Gust of Wind can dissipate most fog spells and they do not reform after the gust - but something like Silence would work since it "emanates" from the source continuously.