What Changes to Inzeladun?

[thormagni]

I have the hardcover that I got at GenCon, and I have printed out my copy of the PDF if anyone wants to borrow 'em...

I can't wait to see what you think of it, Vince.

I just printed my PDF too. Figured I might as well catch up on all the buzz, y'know?

My initial thought is that it looks to be even MORE tactical than regular D&D. So, it probably isn't the game system for Grimhelm's needs. Someone should take a look at Game of Thrones D20. OG has my extra copy, if anyone wants to line up to take a look at it. It is definitely a more descriptive, less mechanical combat system and magic is nearly non-existent.

Also I was reading some info about Fudge the other day. Grimhelm might want to take a look at that. Quoting from some advertisting copy from Steve Jackson Games: "the word-based system and simple game mechanic to resolve actions let you concentrate on the story rather than the rules." In a nutshell, Fudge (the Free Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine) is an open game system, developed about 10 years ago. You can get it free online, or buy a printed set of rules from Grey Ghost.

From the intro to the free online rules, available at http://www.fudgerpg.com/files/pdf/fudge_1995.pdf

"What is Fudge?
Fudge is a rules-light role-playing game, concentrating on role-playing rather than endless dice rolls and tables and similar detailed game mechanics. It also uses words rather than numbers to describe character traits.

For example, a character might be a Great Swordsman rather than a 14th level fighter. Combined with simple action resolution, Fudge’s descriptive nature makes ideal it for novice players. Fudge is also flexible enough to satisfy experienced role-players.

There are no artificial limits placed on character creation; any character the player can imagine can be described in Fudge terms. (Of course, Fudge encourages players to consult with their game master when designing characters, since the GM has final say over whether or not a character is acceptable in a given game.)"

 

[thormagni]

And on a completely unrelated note... I have an extra copy of Big Eyes Small Mouth D20, the anime role-playing game. Anyone want this copy? I bought one (the one I am giving away), won one (the unrevised, revised edition) and got a review copy (the full-color Deluxe Limited Edition.) No strings attached, I have just run out of room on my Guardians of Order shelf.

 

[InzeladunMaster]

So the ONLY thing that is messed up with the Inzeladun game is Magic/powers?

Or is this DnD in general?

There are MANY other systems out there. Though, they all have flaws.

Perhaps a Mind's Eye Theatre system might be decent?

The emphasis on magic and magic items is the worst flaw as I see it. I am not looking for a flawless system, just one that downplays magic. With DnD, few players will play a straight fighter or rogue - almost everyone wants a wizard, cleric, druid, ranger, paladin, psion, psychic warrior, sorcerer. Virtually every PC class involves magic.

DnD was better with AD&D because multiclassing sucked and was discouraged - with 3E, why wouldn't players have a few levels of magic use? So many spells help out swordsmen, they may as well grab a few levels to get those spells.

 

[InzeladunMaster]

My initial thought is that it looks to be even MORE tactical than regular D&D. So, it probably isn't the game system for Grimhelm's needs.

I don't mind tactics for Inzeladun.

Someone should take a look at Game of Thrones D20. OG has my extra copy, if anyone wants to line up to take a look at it. It is definitely a more descriptive, less mechanical combat system and magic is nearly non-existent.

I'd be happy to look at it.

Fudge is a rules-light role-playing game, concentrating on role-playing rather than endless dice rolls and tables and similar detailed game mechanics. It also uses words rather than numbers to describe character traits.

Rules-Light does not interest me per se; rules should be invisible and known by the GM to the point where they rarely need to be consulted. I have a copy of Feng Shui which is also rules-light and "cinematic."

Game of Thrones interests me. The rule-set I am looking for does not require a lot of magic and has, at most, one spell-casting PC class that most players will not take.

 

[Grimhelm]

Fudge sounds interesting! Basically that's what I do now, though if my players feel uncomfortable with a ruling, I will resort to a book. Luckily for me when I pull a DC out of my ass, Bob is there to say, "That sounds fair."

 

[InzeladunMaster]

And on a completely unrelated note... I have an extra copy of Big Eyes Small Mouth D20, the anime role-playing game. Anyone want this copy? I bought one (the one I am giving away), won one (the unrevised, revised edition) and got a review copy (the full-color Deluxe Limited Edition.) No strings attached, I have just run out of room on my Guardians of Order shelf.

I will take it.

The "unrevised, revised edition"?

 

[thormagni]

I will take it.

The "unrevised, revised edition"?

Yeah. Sad but true. Guardians of Order came out with BESM D20 in 2003 before 3.5 came out. In 2004, in a flurry of activity they put out a revised edition. Except they sent the wrong manuscript to the printers or some such and actually printed a book that mixes 3.0 compatible rules with 3.5 rules and about 30 pages added of "creating a mecha" rules. Once they realized they made the mistake, they offered a revised, revised version you could get by trading in the unrevised, revised through their Web site. So, they have...

* A Deluxe Limited Edition BESM D20 (leather cover, full color) compatible with 3.0
* A BESM D20 non-deluxe edition compatible with 3.0 (black and white art, normal cover, the one I'm giving to you)
* A revised for 3.5 version which really isn't completely revised. (black and white art, normal cover)
* A revised for 3.5 version which really is revised. (black and white art, normal cover) I don't own this one.
* A Stingy Gamer's Edition which really is revised. (very little art, small type, paperback, super cheap) I don't own the SGE either.

BESM D20 combines anime-style classes such as Gun Bunny, Mecha Pilot and Magical Girl, with the power and ability system from Silver Age Sentinels.

But the most interesting part for me is that they deconstructed the standard D&D classes using their own ability and power system, to come up with point-balanced versions of those standard classes. Essentially, every level of advancement is about 10 character points worth of power. So all 20th level characters are about 200 character points. It's interesting in a purely "break the system down and see how it works" sort of way.

Really, BESM D20 is my winner in the "how far can you tweak D20 until it doesn't resemble D&D any more" contest. Picture Tri-Stat BESM as peanut butter and D&D D20 as a chocolate bar and the two are running into each other. Except instead of a Reese's cup, you end up with a sentient peanut butter golem covered in chocolate armor lumbering across the landscape.

 

[InzeladunMaster]

I had heard a lot of good things about the system. I am looking forward to seeing it.

 

[chachi]

Ah, to make the world anew! It’s interesting for me to listen to (or watch?) this discussion about Inzeladun. I’m familiar with it in only the very broadest strokes, and have never set foot on Inzeladun soil. In many ways, I have no business sticking my nose in here since I am not really a stakeholder. In another sense, however, maybe I can see this problem objectively in a way that others cannot because I am detached.

Vince has tendencies and preferences as a GM, and I feel that one of his strengths is world building. Hyboria is a very believable place, and while Howard had a hand in it, so did Vince, especially from an RPG perspective. It seems to me that a better place to begin this discussion is by asking, “What kind of place should Inzeladun be? What is Inzeladun’s story?” We should get an idea of our ultimate goal before we start nitpicking monster challenge ratings and such. When roleplaying, I’ve seen Vince tell players, ‘Tell me what you want to accomplish, and I’ll tell you how to do it.” If we tell him what we want to accomplish, then we can work together to do it.

We can tackle mechanics after that. In this group we have a great collection of players with lots of experience and entire libraries of source material, both RPG stuff along with history, mythology and other texts. If the standard D&D monsters don’t fit what we’ll need, then we can create entirely new monsters, from Vince’s infamous crocodiles all the way up to fanciful unicorns and beyond. The imagination that it takes to take a base set of rules (d20) and bend them to create what we want captures the intelligence and true spirit of role playing at its’ best.

 

[chachi]

That being said, I have always preferred a low fantasy setting. That’s what draws me to sword and sorcery. I have always preferred a story of a low level thief trying to scrape by as opposed to some epic level guy with a +13 rapier of god-knows-what.

Magic users may or may not be real things, but actually seeing someone cast a fireball would be just as strange and frightening to my character as it would be to me. Certainly anyone who went around doing those types of things regularly would be killed or imprisoned.

Magic items may or may not be real things. I like the idea of items being superior and better than average without being magical. I may have a deck of cards that is so lucky that I win more than I lose with them. Then again, that may just be all in my head. I don’t like the idea of a +2 short sword and a +1 amulet. Magical items aren’t that mundane. They can’t be purchased at a dealer. The same for healing potions. There may be artifacts, but only a very few and extremely rare. Think of the Gutenberg Bible.