What class has changed the least through the editions?

[Thunderfoot]

I would say its a wash between cleric and wizard actually, they both have changed some from 1E - but neither as much as the other classes.

As for the power of clerics versus the other classes, give me a party of clerics, just clerics, and there is NOTHING they can't do, take turns buffing, healing and fighting..when one goes down, another pulls him right back up and another heals him to near full, absolutely freaking relentless. Yes they can't fight as well as a fighter and lack major damage dealing area of effect spells (generalization) and their base chance to find anything other than their own weapons and armor are almost non existant, BUT once they buff it all bets off Suzy, and of course a party of clerics against undead and, later in life, outsiders...forget about it, no one can touch them.

 

[Klaus]

Wizards. The only changes are that they now can use crossbows, and the creation of magic items, which earlier was tied to specific levels, became feats. Other than that, the spells changed more than the class.

Clerics went through MAJOR changes. In 1e they used bludgeoning weapons only, and were limited to 7th level spells. In 2e they gained Major or Minor access to Spheres of Influence (with all clerics gaining Major access to the All sphere), but were still limited to 7th level. In 3e we went back to having a single list for cleric spells, but had the addition of Domains and Domain Powers. Plus the Bludgeoning restriction went away, replaced by Simple Weapons.

 

[DaveyJones]

Normal Man aka commoner.

 

[Remathilis]

Hmmm...

In order of classes that changed to least to most over the editions...

Wizard (feats, familiars as class feature)
Cleric (8th-9th level spells, simple vs. blunt wpns)
Monk (No level cap, better organized damage/ac/flurry bonuses)
Paladin (smite evil, spells come sooner, pokemount)
Fighter (feats)
Druid (no level cap, no hierophant abilities, 8th-9th level spells, earlier wildshape)
Barbarian (rage, uncanny dodge, trap sense)
Rogue (evasion, trap sense, Sneak Attack vs. backstab, customizable skills, high-level rogue abilities)
Ranger (hit die, favored enemy vs. giant class, spell access, evasion, camo/hips, combat path vs. twf)
Bard (requirements to take levels in, spell access, weapons/armor, bardic abilities, bardic learning, druidic abilities, pretty much everything but Hit die)

 

[Peni Griffin]

Spontaneous casting means that I can select a bunch of spells that might be fun to cast, but I never get to cast them because "we might need a Cure later".

A) You are the one casting the spell, not the guy in the armor. Stand up for yourself.
B) Item creation feats wiped this problem anyway. 1st level - scribe scroll. 3rd level - Brew potion. 6th Level - Craft wand. Not to mention the ones you take off your dead foes. CLW potions and scrolls are cheap as dirt, & BTW making a bunch of them at effective caster level 1 is more cost effective than making them at your proper caster level (so my husband who does math in his head and backs it up with spreadsheets I don't understand assures me). There is no reason to memorize cure spells after that first treasure division.

It annoys me that clerics get no bonus feat slots to cover this reality. I find I spend all my feats on item creations, though the capacity to work in conjunction with another spell caster with different feats can ease that pain a little.

People trust priests. You are the face of the party with the outside world. Priests have interrogation and divination spells. You are a prime investigator. Priests have healing capacity. You are the one everyone will leap to assist and wishes to keep in good with. Priests can call divine wrath down on their enemies - doom, curse, blindness/deafness, monster summonings, death knell, flame strike, summoning, spiritual weapons - and succor their friends.

In the end, of course, there is no best class. A good player can have fun and accomplish the campaign goals with an underage commoner if he has to. But when I hear somebody whine that he doesn't want to be the band-aid - well! My expectations for him as a player drop through the floor.

So, returning to the original topic, does anyone have anything as useful as a set of objective criteria for measuring the change? 'Cause if not I think we're all blowing smoke.

 

[Korgoth]

I think that Clerics changed the most.

They used to get no spells at level 1 and 5th level spells by level 7. They used to be restricted to blunt weapons. They used to have no higher than 5th or 7th level spells.

I agree that the Magic-User has probably changed the least.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I think that Clerics changed the most.

They used to get no spells at level 1 and 5th level spells by level 7. They used to be restricted to blunt weapons. They used to have no higher than 5th or 7th level spells.

I agree that the Magic-User has probably changed the least.

WHAAU HUH???? What book were you using, what drugs were you on and why haven't you brought enough for the rest of the class??? They have always gotten spells at 1st level.


Now back to other conversations:
Yes, their spell progression topped at 7th level spells, but cleric spells at 7th level equalled or bettered spells of 9th level in the wizard domain. The numbers don't match, never have, never will. But since we are on the subject of changes and spells, I do believe that wizards didn't get bonus spells (especially since I have my copies of 1E and 2E PHBs right here) - EVER, now they earn them the same as clerics. As I said, a wash - yes they changed the spells level basis and spread them out, but wizards can get bonus spells that they didn't have before. Both classes got better access to weapons and the wizard gets scribe scoll for free and a familiar whenever instead of having to find and then cast a spell for it. Clerics gained the domain spells, but had their access to turning 'nerfed' (in camparrison to the old school method). I still think that overall, its a wash - but I have the feeling that this debate will get personal if left on the line too long.

 

[T. Foster]

WHAAU HUH???? What book were you using, what drugs were you on and why haven't you brought enough for the rest of the class??? They have always gotten spells at 1st level.

Except for Original D&D and every edition of Basic/Classic D&D from 1977 to 1996. Giving clerics spells at 1st level (plus bonus spells for high Wisdom, meaning that pretty much every 1st level cleric is going to have 3 spells) was a huge change in the class between O/CD&D and 1E AD&D -- a 3rd level cleric in O/CD&D has 2 1st level spells and that's it; in 1E AD&D assuming he has a Wisdom of 16+ a 3rd level cleric will have 4 1st level and 3 2nd level spells.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Except for Original D&D and every edition of Basic/Classic D&D from 1977 to 1996. Giving clerics spells at 1st level (plus bonus spells for high Wisdom, meaning that pretty much every 1st level cleric is going to have 3 spells) was a huge change in the class between O/CD&D and 1E AD&D -- a 3rd level cleric in O/CD&D has 2 1st level spells and that's it; in 1E AD&D assuming he has a Wisdom of 16+ a 3rd level cleric will have 4 1st level and 3 2nd level spells.

Oh, right, Basic, I try to forget...

 

[Darklone]

IMHO clerics changed a lot since they got sponty curing.

I'd put them pretty high on the list of "Which class changed most?".

I agree that wizards changes were pretty negligible.