What classes will be in the martial power book?

[Mouseferatu]

Its possible, but... a swashbuckler *feels* like it should be more of a defender than a striker.

Really? I feel completely the opposite. The swashbuckler is the lightly armored guy who's fast on his feet and his darting and whirling through combat, his rapier dealing wounds and death wherever he passes. He's all about avoiding damage, not absorbing it.

That, to me, is the epitome of "striker."

 

[Cadfan]

I'm not sure that avoiding damage is a non-defender type thing to do. As long as you're redirecting enemy combatants away from allies and towards yourself, it seems that should count as being a defender- whether you're doing it by absorbing damage, or dodging blows.

I just don't think a swashbuckler should be lurking around the edge of the battlefield, picking off the weak.

 

[Klaus]

So far I haven't seen one idea for a Martial Controller that wasn't heavily contrived.

And as they have said that they are not obsessing about filling out the power source/role grid (and forced symmetry), which I am fine with, we may never see this martial controller that many are clamouring for.

The problem is that people are forgetting a quote (memory fails me... from Rich Baker, maybe?) that stated that while the Martial power source is the least magical of the three presented, it isn't strictly non-magical. So a Martial controller can theoretically produce wizard-like effect through sheer kickassery (like the pic I posted above of a wu jen casting Earth Fist by punching the ground).

Maybe a new version of the Warblade?

 

[Simm]

Possibly a Striker. The only mention we've had of abilities imply quick movement, devastating damage to multiple targets, and followup attacks.

That sounds something closer to a controller to me. Moves into the thick of enemies to hinder their movement, strikes to scatter damage over a large number of targets.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I just don't think a swashbuckler should be lurking around the edge of the battlefield, picking off the weak.

They've never implied that a striker is "lurking around the edges picking off the weak." As it says in Races & Classes, the strikers are the primary damage dealers. They focus on one or two foes at a time and deal out huge amounts of damage, than move on to other foes before an enemy can lock them down. They're not necessarily lurkers, and they don't focus on cleaning up the rest of the party's mess; they're the guys who move in and dish it out.

IOW, the striker (or at least the melee striker) isn't doing his job if he's not in the thick of things.

 

[The Little Raven]

I just don't think a swashbuckler should be lurking around the edge of the battlefield, picking off the weak.

That's why the melee swashbuckler (aka the rogue) gets in the midst of things.

 

[The Little Raven]

That sounds something closer to a controller to me. Moves into the thick of enemies to hinder their movement, strikes to scatter damage over a large number of targets.

Nothing about hindering movement. Just that it was able to move across the dungeon and take down like 5 weak skeletons with lightning panther strike, then make a followup attack with a bite.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I do think part of the reason people can't wrap their heads around a martial controller is because people don't really know what a "controller" is supposed to look like.

I mean, we have basically been told "a little like the 3e Wizard," but the 3e Wizard could do a LOT of things (a LOT a lot), and was usually relied on to do direct damage over a large area (striker-esque?) or manipulate the battlefield (which is vague -- a defender manipulates the battlefield, too, by making it tough for enemies to move, and a striker manipulates the battlefield by moving through it easily himself, and a leader manipulates the battlefield by keeping allies close together). A controller might be similar to Crowd Control in MMO's, but it's a little hard to imagine a wizard in D&D just playing the "delay them for a round or two!" card, and it sounds a bit defender-esque too (stopping enemies from getting to the weak ones). The Defender-as-hp-damage-soaker probably isn't as prevelant as the MMO "tank" role, what with fighters being able to dish it out and the like.

So the upthrust of this is basically "Controllers: WTF?"

Once we see how the roles are actually at-work it might become a bit clearer.

 

[Mouseferatu]

So the upthrust of this is basically "Controllers: WTF?"

Once we see how the roles are actually at-work it might become a bit clearer.

Once again consulting the holy text of Races & Classes...

The controller specializes in dealing damage or inflicting conditions on multiple targets at once, usually at range. They might do less damage per target than the striker, but they're in their element when they can catch multiple foes at once.

 

[The Little Raven]

Once again consulting the holy text of Races & Classes...

The controller specializes in dealing damage or inflicting conditions on multiple targets at once, usually at range. They might do less damage per target than the striker, but they're in their element when they can catch multiple foes at once.

They are also able to manipulate the battlefield to create advantages/disadvantages for friends/foes, such as walls of fire/ice, causing thorny undergrowth to rise, etc.