What core 3.5 race is the weakest?

[Urbanmech]

Had to vote for the Half-Orc. The +2 to Strength is awesome for combat, but unless you are playing an all combat game there will be many situations where that bonus strength doens't make up for the hits to intelligence and wisdom. At least they could throw the Half-Orc another bone besides darkvision? Maybe some skill bonuses to intimidate, climb, or jump? Or maybe a choice between -2 int or cha?

 

[Someone]

Question on the gnome. Wouldn't either psion (if you're playing a psionic campaign) or sorcerer make a better standard class, just based on the trickster personality? Maybe that's a question for another topic...

[off topic]I´d agree that psion is the best class for the mischievous character. The possibilities of powers like Create and Control Sound, Attraction, Aversion, False Sensory Input, Matter agitation... and the possibility to do it without anyone noticing (since a concentration check DC 15 negates displays, and even a low level psion has the option to blow focus for an automatic roll of 15)

 

[snarfoogle]

So apparently, everyone thinks the dwarf is good. I just want to know why half-halfings and half-dwarves aren't core.

 

[PaulGreystoke]

I hit half-elf to begin with, but realised a moment later that it is in fact the elf that is the weakest race. Let's look at what they get:

-2 con, +2 dex
A lot of other stuff that doesn't really matter too much.

+2 dex does NOT make up for -2 con. Elves seem to drop left right and centre when I see them played, and every class can always use more con.

It's the main reason that elves are the weakest race and dwarves are the strongest race.

What Gort said. Drat! I thought I was going to be the first one making this point. The fact that elves are just about the only race in the MM with a CON penalty is telling. It makes them a poor choice both for melee combatants & for the classes that don't get good HD. They are arguably only a decent choice for ranged combatants. Even my DEX-loving archer player won't use elves anymore...

 

[Dark Jezter]

Had to vote for the Half-Orc. The +2 to Strength is awesome for combat, but unless you are playing an all combat game there will be many situations where that bonus strength doens't make up for the hits to intelligence and wisdom. At least they could throw the Half-Orc another bone besides darkvision? Maybe some skill bonuses to intimidate, climb, or jump? Or maybe a choice between -2 int or cha?

Half-orcs have -2 intelligence and charisma. They have no penalties to wisdom.

 

[rangerjohn]

Not that it really helps, but you would also get +10' movement in comparison!

Bye
Thanee

Only out of heavy armor. Which a dwarf looking at +2 str would probably be wearing.

edit:

Oops too late.

 

[Capellan]

I went with Half-Orc. Only because they're always the stereotype of the slow-witted brute. Horc smash! Horc fight! Like Dr. Banner after someone makes him mad -- ALL THE TIME.

Well, that sounds more like the players than the race ... half-orcs can be played other ways: mine is.

From a raw 'cool stuff' position, I think half-orcs probably get a raw deal (and in my games, I often waive the -2 Cha, or give them +2 Intimidate, for that reason). But really, the different races can all be fun to play, and my experience hasn't suggested any of the 3.5 PH racial options are too drastically underpowered (unlike some of the 3.0 classes - bard, for instance).

 

[heimdall]

Question on the gnome. Wouldn't either psion (if you're playing a psionic campaign) or sorcerer make a better standard class, just based on the trickster personality? Maybe that's a question for another topic...

My gnomes do tend to be sorcerers. +2 Con helps out a lot when you have d4 for hit die. The small size also tends to work to a gnome's advantage. An additional +1 on AC for someone that won't be wearing armor is great. The additional +1 to hit helps with ranged touch attacks like scorching ray and the like. The bonus on Craft (alchemy) fits right along with the sorcerer class. BTW, this all works for being a wizard. Especially the old standby specialist wizard (illusionist). After all, the +2 bonus to saving throws versus illusions and the +1 to DC for illusion spells cast by a gnome lean one in that direction. Hence the reason I don't think they are the weakest race.

 

[Scion]

I voted half orc.. the extra +2 str has just never, in my eyes, made up for the huge number of penalties.

Extra +1 to hit and damage with melee weapons? woo. at least the halfelf has a nice role to play, people just like him.

 

[Thanee]

186:0 for the dwarves and counting. Dwarves are broken!

Bye
Thanee