What could 4E learn from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay?

[Angellis_ater]

So, I'm awesomely impressed by the quality and width of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay in how it was put together and assembled.

Take a look: Fantasy Flight Games [Videos]

When you get back, tell me - how do you think that 4E could've been "rethunk" with this kind of background?

Me personally I see a "Core Set" with the 3 rulebooks, character sheets, premade dice, power cards for all powers in the Core Books, standup character "models" and a number of monsters in standups. Oh, and "markers" for curses and quarries and marks. And perhaps even numbered "tag-markers" that you put when there are ongoing effects to remember them?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Looking at all those damn pretty pieces reminds me of what it was like looking at the Talisman game board for the first time way back in the early eighties. It makes you want to pick up the pieces and work out how to play them - the 4e PHB provoked not quite the opposite reaction but close to: too much textbook, too little magic (and in some ways too much).

While 3e Warhammer Roleplaying screams more boardgame than roleplaying game, I think it is being honest with itself in terms of presentation. It looks like a wonderful mixture of boardgame elements to ease gameplay and facilitate the visual while still (hopefully) staying true to its roots in terms of the depth of a roleplaying game.

What would have happened if 4e had done the same? What would have happened if 4e had have:
- Come in a box rather than 3 core books
- Given you stand-up tokens ready to go with detailed maps to stand them on
- Had all the power cards ready to go
- Included everything you need in the box?
- (and given you the DDI Compendium and Character Builder Online)

I think the backlash would have been roughly the same as it was in terms of edition wars. However, in terms of penetrating the player market (getting TCG players and Computer Game players to give it a go), I think it would have been truly amazing if not the experience many of us "grognards" (for want of a better term) would have been immediately interested in.

I suppose this is what the DDI gametable was supposed to provide but in digital rather than boardgame form.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[kaomera]

Me personally I see a "Core Set" with the 3 rulebooks, character sheets, premade dice, power cards for all powers in the Core Books, standup character "models" and a number of monsters in standups. Oh, and "markers" for curses and quarries and marks. And perhaps even numbered "tag-markers" that you put when there are ongoing effects to remember them?

At what price point? I'm not paying $100 for WHFRP, it really doesn't matter what comes in the box. That is simply not an acceptable amount of money for me to even consider spending on a single gaming product. Lacking the ability to purchase 4e in manageable chunks, I'd find some other game to play.

EDIT: I'm sorry if my response is unhelpful or comes across as antagonistic.

 

[ggroy]

Hard to say exactly what WotC could learn from this, before it is even released.

The proof in the pudding is how well the 3E WFRP box set sells over the next year after it is released. If it turns out that 3E WFRP becomes a hot seller, then I'm sure WotC will be looking at it very closely for possible new ideas for 4E or a future edition of D&D.

On the WotC side, there is a Ravenloft board game scheduled for release sometime in 2010. It will be interesting to see if 3E WFRP has much of an influence on its design.

 

[Henry]

On the other hand, I look at WFRP3 and see a game I DON'T want to play. I have a reaction to it similar to the reactions to 4E a year ago. I'm still curious to try it at a con or such to see how it works, but I'm turned off by the perception of too much flash, not enough substance.

 

[Asmor]

I'm excited for it, but also a little worried.

Excited because all the bits just instantly appeal to my inner board gamer.

Excited because of the prospect of the different and innovative mechanics, and getting to try them out. I'm particularly interested in their stance system.

But worried, because I see in this the potential to turn an RPG into that holy grail of marketing, the collectible game. The way it's designed lends itself perfectly to randomized booster packs with new careers, powers, etc.

In the end, I probably will get this if I can manage to save up the considerable investment required for it. Even on Amazon, it's almost $70.

 

[Korgoth]

WOTC could have learned how to alienate 75% of their customers instead of the mere 40% they settled for.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Am I the only person who looks at this and says, "That's too many fiddly bits, and I have no space for a giant box?" I'm buying as much as I can in PDF now to save shelf space. I own Arkham Horror, that fills my quota of giant boxes with tactile stuff in them, I see no need for this in my RPG's.

 

[Angellis_ater]

I spent about the same amount of money on the three core books as this costs. And for the same amount of money, if I would've gotten pre-printed, beautiful power cards, and character sheets, and standups for both monsters and characters and a box to keep it in? It would've been awesome.

I mean, the option still remains to buy PDFs for those who prefer it that way. I'm a little confused at the people who seem to think I meant this discussion as exclusive, while it is in fact inclusive.

 

[AverageCitizen]

The party sheet is interesting, although I have mixed feelings about it.

I like the idea of party slots where a character can share abilities with the party. 4e DnD does this to some extent, but if it were more fully integrated it could have worked well. It certainly would have a big impact on the Warlord.

I don't like the idea of party types and stats for things like "tension". It seems like a way to use a board game to simulate a role playing experience.