D&D General What D&D Would You Use For A Dungeon Focused Campaign?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Isn't 12 kobolds in the 2014 calculator a double deadly encounter for 1st level characters?

Oh, yes. Frankly, it was a deadly encounter in the original, but everyone seems to gloss over that tree.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Ooh, Kobold Fight Club is back!

 

[Reynard]

As an aside: I just tried to generate a high CR treasure for my regular game (the PCs have found a treasure hoard meant as part of a ritual to draw Tiamat into the Prime) and boy is that a massive PITA. As usual, the weird organization decisions in the DMG makes it harder than it should be, and on top of it the Fantasy grounds coders decided not to include any sort of nested tables. This should not be this difficult.

 

[Reynard]

Ooh, Kobold Fight Club is back!

Was it gone?

 

[Charlaquin]

So, just for fun, let's look at what 4 medium,

Let's see what that look like just for fun: (encounters generated with Kobold Fight Club, for 4 4th-level PCs)

Easy: 1 goblin boss, 1 quadrone
Easy: 1 dryan, 1 grung wildling, 1 spy
Medium: giant crocodile
Medium: 1harpy, 1 specter
Medium: 1 hellhound, 1 mummy
Medium: 1 hunter shark, 1 duergar hammerer
Hard: 1 Githzerai zerth
Hard: I faerie dragon (green, 1 silver dragon wyrmling

Pretty eclectic set of monsters, but sounds about right. Those encounters will all be quick to complete for a group of 4 level 4 PCs, but will whittle down their resources so that the whole gauntlet in aggregate is a tough but fair challenge. Assuming the dragon encounter is last, the party will be running pretty ragged by the time they reach it, which should make for a pretty fun boss fight. I’d recon if the players are familiar with their characters and don’t spend too much time waffling about which route to take through the dungeon, you could get through all of this in a 4-hour sessions. And the players will feel unstoppable for the first half of the encounters, but realize they might not have enough gas for the whole thing in the back half. Then you’ll just need to provide enough time pressure to discourage them from trying to sneak a long rest in before the end.

I know you’re skeptical, but I encourage you to actually playtest this. I’d gladly volunteer to join as a player, if you ran it remotely.

 

[Charlaquin]

As an aside: I just tried to generate a high CR treasure for my regular game (the PCs have found a treasure hoard meant as part of a ritual to draw Tiamat into the Prime) and boy is that a massive PITA. As usual, the weird organization decisions in the DMG makes it harder than it should be, and on top of it the Fantasy grounds coders decided not to include any sort of nested tables. This should not be this difficult.

A well-deserved critique!

 

[Reynard]

Pretty eclectic set of monsters, but sounds about right. Those encounters will all be quick to complete for a group of 4 level 4 PCs, but will whittle down their resources so that the whole gauntlet in aggregate is a tough but fair challenge. Assuming the dragon encounter is last, the party will be running pretty ragged by the time they reach it, which should make for a pretty fun boss fight. I’d recon if the players are familiar with their characters and don’t spend too much time waffling about which route to take through the dungeon, you could get through all of this in a 4-hour sessions. And the players will feel unstoppable for the first half of the encounters, but realize they might not have enough gas for the whole thing in the back half. Then you’ll just need to provide enough time pressure to discourage them from trying to sneak a long rest in before the end.

I know you’re skeptical, but I encourage you to actually playtest this. I’d gladly volunteer to join as a player, if you ran it remotely.

Emphasis mine.

I have run a lot of 4 hour convention games of 5E. There is no way you would get through 8 encounters plus exploration in that time. Literally impossible.

 

[Charlaquin]

Emphasis mine.

I have run a lot of 4 hour convention games of 5E. There is no way you would get through 8 encounters plus exploration in that time. Literally impossible.

I’ve done it. It helps that these monster stats are very simple and easy to run, and that the encounters are individually easy. These encounters should take 10 to 15 minutes each. If the players are slow to make decisions about what to do on their turn, sure, that’s going to make them take longer. But with confident players, it can absolutely be done.

 

[Reynard]

I’ve done it. It helps that these monster stats are very simple and easy to run, and that the encounters are individually easy. These encounters should take 10 to 15 minutes each. If the players are slow to make decisions about what to do on their turn, sure, that’s going to make them take longer. But with confident players, it can absolutely be done.

I won't deny your experience, so I guess all i can say is that you must have had the players on board with making a real effort to get through as much as possible in the single session.

Did that make it more fun? Are hyper-focused players better to GM? I mean, as opposed to players that are enjoying the game in a more typically semi-casual way?

In either case, I am guessing it would not work at that pace at a con. Too many variables in potential players, if nothing else.

 

[Charlaquin]

I won't deny your experience, so I guess all i can say is that you must have had the players on board with making a real effort to get through as much as possible in the single session.

Did that make it more fun? Are hyper-focused players better to GM? I mean, as opposed to players that are enjoying the game in a more typically semi-casual way?

I don’t really see it as hyper-focused. The key is to prioritize action. Most other tables I’ve played in, players ask so many questions, and asking questions forestalls action. I encourage players to declare actions rather than ask questions. If you want to know something, describe your character doing something to try to find out the answer rather than asking about it “above table.” It takes players a bit to get used to engaging that way, but once they do, it makes the game run so much faster and smoother.

The real potential slowdown is players who aren’t familiar enough with their characters to make decisions quickly and confidently in combat. That’s something I really haven’t found a good solution to.

In either case, I am guessing it would not work at that pace at a con. Too many variables in potential players, if nothing else.

That’s fair. I’ve never run a con game, but I can see that being much more difficult to run quickly.

EDIT: I should clarify, I don’t typically get through a 6-8 encounter dungeon in a 4-hour session. It is doable with a group who know how to engage through action and make quick confident choices in combat, but it’s not typical. My average games run at probably around half that pace. 3-4 encounters in a 4-hour session. Which is pretty good timing to end a session on a short rest and finish the dungeon next time.