D&D General What D&D Would You Use For A Dungeon Focused Campaign?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Was it gone?

Yeah, the original site owner found it to be too much trouble to maintain. The fact that it's now called "Plus" suggests to me that it's probably under new management.

 

[Parmandur]

What level party was this for?

Four or five 10th Level PCs is the stated recommendation.

 

[Charlaquin]

Four or five 10th Level PCs is the stated recommendation.

That makes sense, it read like a pretty high level set of encounters. I guess 10th is technically mid-level, but in my mind 10-12 high, and 13+ is very high.

 

[Parmandur]

That makes sense, it read like a pretty high level set of encounters. I guess 10th is technically mid-level, but in my mind 10-12 high, and 13+ is very high.

YMMV with the pre-made stuff, but for Dragon Delves the designers came in meaning business in terms of Dungeon difficulty.

 

[Reynard]

YMMV with the pre-made stuff, but for Dragon Delves the designers came in meaning business in terms of Dungeon difficulty.

What is the overall quality of those adventures. I am not terribly keen on WotC, but I do love dragons.

 

[Zardnaar]

That makes sense, it read like a pretty high level set of encounters. I guess 10th is technically mid-level, but in my mind 10-12 high, and 13+ is very high.

13 the system falls apart inho. Attrition doesn't work once spells like conjure Celestial become available.

 

[Reynard]

I don’t really see it as hyper-focused. The key is to prioritize action. Most other tables I’ve played in, players ask so many questions, and asking questions forestalls action. I encourage players to declare actions rather than ask questions. If you want to know something, describe your character doing something to try to find out the answer rather than asking about it “above table.” It takes players a bit to get used to engaging that way, but once they do, it makes the game run so much faster and smoother.

That is an interesting distinction. I do try and use a lot of "What now?" and "What do you do?" prompts, but I also let the players noodle about. I should try asking for more declarative statements.

The real potential slowdown is players who aren’t familiar enough with their characters to make decisions quickly and confidently in combat. That’s something I really haven’t found a good solution to.

That is a big probelm at con games. Even when my pregens have full explanations of all abilities and spells, most players aren't good at figuring out what they can do -- especially before it is their turn.

That’s fair. I’ve never run a con game, but I can see that being much more difficult to run quickly.

I love running con games, but with 5E there are usually 2 or 3 at most combat encounters. Shadowdark, being lighter, lets you do one or two more, but that also has danger associated with it.

EDIT: I should clarify, I don’t typically get through a 6-8 encounter dungeon in a 4-hour session. It is doable with a group who know how to engage through action and make quick confident choices in combat, but it’s not typical. My average games run at probably around half that pace. 3-4 encounters in a 4-hour session. Which is pretty good timing to end a session on a short rest and finish the dungeon next time.

I can definitely see 4 good encounters as a solid baseline for most 4 hour sessions outside of con games. That matches my experience running Rappan Athuk for my regular group, for example.

 

[Parmandur]

What is the overall quality of those adventures. I am not terribly keen on WotC, but I do love dragons.

I think Dragon Delves is of pretty good quality, as an anthology all the modules are unburdened by the need of trying to serve a larger plot which tends to be the Achilles heel of a lot of WotC Adventure books. There is one Dungeon-focused module per major Dragon type, each by a different author, so they are each pretty distinct in tobe and style. They generally avoid overly tired tropes for each kind, for instance the Black Dragon being a Pirate Captain is somewhat of a fun twist despite being a pretty meat and potatoes Dungeon crawl.

 

[Charlaquin]

That is an interesting distinction. I do try and use a lot of "What now?" and "What do you do?" prompts, but I also let the players noodle about. I should try asking for more declarative statements.

Yeah, I find it helps a lot. Another thing that helps is when you do prompt the players for an action, prompt a specific player instead of the group as a whole. Much like how in CPR training they teach you not to say “someone call an ambulance,” but to tell one specific bystander to call an ambulance. When you ask the whole group what they do, there tends to be a pause while everyone waits for someone else to be the first to speak. Then once someone does speak up, it’s often to ask the other players for approval on their suggestion, and you get a bit of above-table discussion while everybody tries to negotiate what their next action should be, which if you’re lucky might eventually result in a declarative statement, but at least as often just spirals into waffling until they all kind of shrug and vaguely suggest something highly noncommittal. But, if you ask one specific player what their character does, you usually get a much more prompt, much more decisive response, which you can add to a to-be-resolved queue while you ask the next player what their character does. Do that for each player in turn, then work your way through the resolution queue, rinse, and repeat. Way more efficient.

That is a big probelm at con games. Even when my pregens have full explanations of all abilities and spells, most players aren't good at figuring out what they can do -- especially before it is their turn.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Personally, I feel like cyclical initiative makes this even worse, because players often check out until their turn comes up, and then you have to remind them of information they should have already known if they had been paying attention on the other players’ turns leading up to theirs. More dynamic initiative systems can help keep players on their toes because they don’t know from one round to the next when they might be called upon to act. Though dynamic initiative systems can have other problems, so it’s always a tradeoff. I can’t imagine any initiative system feeling great to run in a pickup group like at a con game.

I love running con games, but with 5E there are usually 2 or 3 at most combat encounters. Shadowdark, being lighter, lets you do one or two more, but that also has danger associated with it.

Makes sense.

I can definitely see 4 good encounters as a solid baseline for most 4 hour sessions outside of con games. That matches my experience running Rappan Athuk for my regular group, for example.

Yeah sounds like our pacing is probably similar on average then, just different top speeds.

 

[Baron Opal II]

So which D&D game would you use, for which sort of dungeon focused campaign?

Any, really. At this point either B/X or 5.5e depending on the players and what their comfortable with.

If I was going to just make up some kind of delve from base principles it would involve a town over here, and adventure zone (dungeon or whatever) over there, and about a week of travel between them. There would be some natural feature that had to be navigated. An old growth forest, chasm, broad river, something that would become a known obstacle. Then seasonal changes would mess with that somehow. Town would be ~80% social, Route ~80% exploration, Dungeon ~80% combat.